The Communicative Leader

Igniting Your Thought Leadership Brand: A Conversation with Deevo Tindall

• Dr. Leah OH / Deevo Tindall • Season 4 • Episode 6

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Have you thought about sharing some of your expertise, your ideas, or experiences but just are not sure how to get started?

Deevo Tindall, a Chief Experience Officer and leader in Marketing and Branding, walks us through how to use social media and sites like LinkedIn to amplify our voices in order to share our ideas.

Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose.

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Dr. Leah OH:

Deevo Tindall is the chief experience officer and leading expert in marketing and branding. And this episode of the communicative leader Deevo helps us think through how to best position ourselves as thought leaders in our respective industries. Hello, and welcome to the communicative leader hosted by me, Dr. Leah Omilion-Hodges, my friends call me Dr. OH. I'm a Professor of Communication and a leadership communication expert, and the communicative leader, we're working to make your work life what you want it to be. Do you vote Thank you so much for joining us on the communicative leader, I really excited to learn from you. Before we really dive into our conversation, can you tell us a bit about yourself a

Deevo Tindall:

little bit about myself? How far back do I get to go?

Dr. Leah OH:

Oh, your choice.

Deevo Tindall:

I'll just give you the high level version. Well, I'm a I run a couple of businesses in Charlotte, North Carolina. They're called the fusion brands. One of them is a photography studio that's been around since 2006. And then in the last two years, I launched a new division called Fusion creative. So the long and short of that is as we are a branding and marketing agency, and we help small businesses and entrepreneurs help share their message with a larger audience using social media, digital marketing, all the different tools, but more importantly, creating content that tells the story and then using that content to amplify to a very specific type of audiences there. So they're very well equipped to speak their language and what they're really good at to the right type of audience. So we teach CEOs how to do that properly.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah, music to my ears is a communication scholar. I love that. So you take a step back, we think about audience, we think about content are more likely to have successful results. Absolutely.

Deevo Tindall:

The business was born from that very gap, I just, I was finding out that a lot of small business owners, specifically Small Business CEOs, and entrepreneurs didn't really know what to do once they had good content created, it just sort of sat on a digital Grodd drive and collected digital dust. And so we set out to kind of fill that gap. Yeah, really cool.

Dr. Leah OH:

So you know that you are a branding expert. And today I'd like to think about kind of the intersection of leadership and personal branding. So to that end, how important that is a personal brand for leaders?

Deevo Tindall:

Well, I don't think a lot of people think about personal brands, so we should probably define what that looks like. But for me personal branding, it's it's really it's a it's a quintessential Game Changer really to be. To be truthful with, it's going to it's sort of the alchemy of transforming from just another industry player to somebody who has a gold standard of things that are about them, it becomes it becomes it gives people an outlet to express themselves outside of just their business. So for example, you know, you run a podcast, you have a successful business, but maybe there's other things and other avenues that you want to connect with a larger audience or very more specific audience, maybe you wanna start doing keynotes, maybe you want to write a book, maybe we want to show up on podcasts like I do. And so people only know you as the CEO of this company, or they only know you as the host of this podcast, or they only know you in the capacity that which you primarily serve, right. And so developing a personal brand, takes that to a whole different level, and gives you the opportunity to expose yourself to a larger audience so that you can further amplify whatever it is that you're trying to sell, teach, educate, inspire, etc. And so if you if you're able to develop that personal brand, very strategically and cogently, then you can use those side by side with not only your business, but connecting to a much larger audience, different type of person that you had ever connected with before, on a personal level, but also on a large group level.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah, and I love it was so succinct from an industry player to the gold standard. Yeah, that is that is a beautiful way to illustrate that. We

Deevo Tindall:

everybody, everybody, I mean, so the whole sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your whole, the whole key around that whole personal branding space is that, you know, there's 1000s of podcasters just like you and I right, there's 1000s of CEOs who do operate in the same industry, there are all kinds of people doing the same thing. And we're all competing for the same set of eyeballs. So anything that we can do as leaders to to transform what we stand for what we believe in our value proposition, and then really use that to share that message on a more personal level with the larger audience enables us to not only continue doing what we're doing, and from our from our business side of view, but then again, expansion to a whole different market. We had never been considered before, potentially. Yeah.

Dr. Leah OH:

And so with that in mind, what are some of the what is some impact that you've seen this kind of personal branding, or amplifying this message have on someone's success? Well,

Deevo Tindall:

for example, I'll just use me as an example I show up in about 60 60 to 100 podcasts a year. And it's not a week doesn't go by that some podcast was heard by some person who then reaches out to me, because they want more information and they want to do business with me or they want to connect with me or they want to be on my podcast. And for me, personal branding is really the cornerstone of that is not selling per se, it's not so much that you're selling yourself to a different audience. That's the outcome. But it's really more about setting up an advantage for you so that you can connect with a larger audience and build a brand, not just around your business, but around some of the other things that you might not be able to do in your business, like keynotes, write books, show up on podcasts, etc. And just offer a different side of yourself that you hadn't considered before. But really, the bottom line of it is just being able to connect with a much larger audience. I can't tell you how beneficial it's been for me. I've booked keynotes from it. I've booked podcast guests from it, I booked businesses from it, I got a call this morning from somebody who reached out to me on LinkedIn, she saw, she heard me on a podcast like a month ago. And she found out that I'm running this 30 day course challenge for entrepreneurs. And she's like, I've got 10 People who want to sign up for this. So it's just, I can't speak volumes enough about being able to use yourself as the icon to build something bigger than you've already done.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah, right. Because we're, we're dynamic, it's not static. It's not just a logo. It's not just a slogan. And I love that you hit in on or you said it's not necessarily selling. So I think some people at first blush are like, Oh, I don't know that I could do that with myself. But it's connection, it's getting your name and those services out there.

Deevo Tindall:

Yeah, you do that every day. If you if you stop and think about it, like you're literally doing it every day. And and one thing that I teach a lot of my clients is that, you know, you're basically networking and connecting 24/7, from, from sitting at your kids basketball game, to grabbing coffee in line to at the grocery store, like you're literally always connecting, so why not have some purpose behind that, and some and some impetus behind that so that you can actually connect on a professional level and share whatever it is that you're trying to share with the world. I mean, that there's something you do really well, right? So how can we get that message out there to a larger audience? And don't be afraid to do like, this is what we're here for. We're here to make a difference.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah, yeah. So with that in mind, what are some key steps or strategies so that a leader could take to create the strong and authentic personal brand,

Deevo Tindall:

I think, first and foremost being very, very clear on why and how and what it is that you that you're doing that you want to show up for. So if if you're showing up on podcasts, like me have a very clear value proposition on what it is that you bring to the table. So if you want to write a book, be very clear on what the value is that you want, and the lesson that you want to impart in the people reading your book. So you hear this all the time, it sounds cliche, there's 1000s of books being written on it now. But if if you can understand your purpose, and your Northstar around what your personal brand looks like, then you're going to be better equipped to share that message with the audience that you're specifically targeting, to reach in the first place. And so one of the things that we do is it's sort of like a personal brand audit, if you will, it's a brand discovery, and really kind of deep dive and get, get under the covers and figure out who are you man? What do you do? What do you do really well, what what's your value? Why would I give you my money to exchange this resource exchange for your information? How is it going to make my life different, better, more enhanced, etc. And so if you can figure all those things out on what your message looks like, then you're gonna be more equipped to better sell that better hat better deliver that message to the audience you're trying to deliver to? And

Dr. Leah OH:

I think too, and you're talking about I think we spend so much time externally focused, we research the new car, we even figure out what what grocery store am I going to bring my money to. But we don't turn that internally as often as we should. And so I think what you're saying kidding, it's considering what those values are that we hold, and then how it is we do things slightly different than others.

Deevo Tindall:

Absolutely. Have you ever done anything like that yourself? To a personal self discovery?

Dr. Leah OH:

Here, and they're not in the deepest dive that I should I actually, as part of my my day job, I teach PR and writing and research. So I've done some of it there. I've done some of it with working with this podcast, but not as fully as I should.

Deevo Tindall:

Yeah, a good friend of mine, Gary, many, many years ago, when I left the corporate world, I was just sort of sitting down with people trying to figure out you know what it is I wanted to do when I grew up. Yeah. And he said something to me, this is like 20 years ago, and he says something to me, that has resonated with me. We are unable to read our label when we get stuck inside of our own jar. And so it's interesting, you know, it's why people have therapists. It's why people have coaches. It's why people seek outside counsel because we're not really able to sort of understand who we are because we've lived with ourselves the entire time. And most people don't take the time to sort of step back and be introspective about who I am. What's my value? What do I do? Why am I here? Like, what is it, I'm here to deliver. And we get sort of stuck in this treadmill of just like, perpetually doing the same thing without ever really understanding our clear impact. So these personal audits, these personal discoveries are an opportunity for you to be introspective and self awareness on what your value is to the universe, and then find a way to, to propagate that and then share it.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah. And what a gift for self. to really hone in on that. Point.

Deevo Tindall:

Brilliant point. Yeah, well, you're right. We don't get ourselves very often we sort of have this idea that we're, and it's great, you know, we're here to serve, we're here to add value, all these sorts of things. But if we're, if we're not, if we are not a full person, if we're not able to fully develop who we are and understand who we are, we're less equipped to be able to deliver the people who want to serve in the first place, whether their father as a partner as CEO, whatever it is, right? Yeah.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah. So depot, in your opinion, what are some of the common misconceptions or myths that you've heard about personal branding or the other should be kind of aware of as they start this, this personal audit

Deevo Tindall:

topic a lot of people have, have, they have impostor syndrome around around who they are, first and foremost, and because of that imposter syndrome. They think that personal branding is only for like these big celebrities, or these really high profile public figures, or that social media influencer that I saw that has a million followers and is doing. And the thing is, is those people were once the person you consider yourself as and so the difference between they and you is that they have the courage, and the Moxie to step off that platform and say, I'm going to do this. So they just started by starting. And so the biggest misconception is that it's reserved for people that everyone else but you, and I always sort of say like, why not? You? Like, why not? You? What are you good at? Why Why would someone else even if it's just one person, not want to be received receiving that message? Like, why not you? And then I think another misconception is that a lot of people think it's a, they lose hope, because they think it is a one time effort. And they posted that one time on social media. And they went on that one podcast, and it didn't result in anything like Whoa, man, I show up on like, 100 podcasts a year. And I'll tell you, like, a few of them really have a ripple effect. Some of them are a waste of time. But sorry, let me rephrase that. Some of them might appear as a waste of time. That's not the case. Because you never know who's listening. You never know who's watching. And it's not a set it and forget, forget it task. It's sort of like a consistent, always ongoing job to be able to share why someone else would want to do that resource exchange with you.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah, so in some ways, it kind of sounds like it becomes more of a lifestyle, a professional lifestyle. And I love that you use the word Maxi, because one, I don't think we hear that enough. So important. But recognizing again, we don't, it's not we check it off on our list one time, wash your hands of it and move on.

Deevo Tindall:

I mean, it's not it's not dissimilar to anything else in your life. If you think about the things that you're really good at, whether it's a fitness program, or a new diet you started or even the job you're in, like, you didn't just go to work one day and be like, Oh, I'm suddenly an expert there. There is a lot of subtleties and nuances to promoting yourself to building this personal brand. And I think a lot of people get stuck on that whole word of promoting myself, it sounds narcissistic and vain and all that. But if you're not going to do it, then someone else is going to do it. So why not you? And it's not it's not a vain context, if you don't look at it from a vain context. If you reframe that juxtaposition as saying, I'm really passionate about this particular thing. And I feel like when I've shared this with other people, it's made a difference in their life, whether it's a book, whether it's a story, whether it's poetry, whether it's keynotes. And if you can just reframe that from the standpoint of I'm here to deliver something to someone else to make their life a little bit easier, better, etc, then it might, it might enable you to sort of get rid of that vanity metric that you're that you're sort of measuring yourself by.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah, exactly. And I think you're right, that that is a hurdle to get over. And maybe sometimes we have to keep running that race and jumping those hurdles. But if we, if we're committed to this, and we're doing it, how do you recommend, you know, leveraging social media for thinking Instagram X tick tock, tick tock, you know, how do we do that and still maintain our professional image?

Deevo Tindall:

Well, first and foremost, it really goes back to that purpose that I was talking about the outline and really understanding what's the value that you're going to be bringing to the table and being very, very, very crystal clear on that brand message. So just like you would do with your business, just like you would do with your company. You have a mission you have an objective you have a vision Are you you sort of understand what your brand message looks like. And then what from that point on, create a strategy centered around content creation, and, and photos, videos and social media or paid advertising all the different tools, I mean, there's a bevy of tools at our disposal right now. And you just have to pick, I wouldn't say you have to play in all of them, I would say, start small, pick maybe one social media channel that you really feel comfortable with, and that you think your audience might be hanging out on. And then put together a content strategy, within that content strategy, have a diverse set of content, ideas, whether it's videos, whether it's photography, whether it's just inspirational quotes, things that you feel you can best show up in, and then plan that in advance, don't try to shoot from the hip every morning. And then one of the things that I suggest everybody is you can batch create most of that content. If you just devote a few hours every week or every other other week. However, whatever your efficiencies are, and you batch create this content, which is tied directly to the strategy that you already developed in advance, you'll find that you can sort of use this content on demand as opposed to like thinking, what am I going to post it? I have no idea what am I talking about? And so if you're very strategic about it, just like you would be with your business, then you can also you can attack your own personal band from that same perspective. Yeah,

Dr. Leah OH:

and I love those. Obviously, your expertise that batch creating where an offset like people might say, There's no way my schedule doesn't permit for this, I can accommodate it. We want to do it, we can, right? We're just figuring out how do we block that time?

Deevo Tindall:

Well, for that hour and a half, that you're going to watch Netflix later tonight or for that for that 1020 3040 minutes that you're going to sit in your bed in the morning, scrolling through your Instagram, reprioritize that reprioritize that and set aside some time, like I filmed 10 videos this morning between 6am and 9am. And now I have those videos filmed and ready to go, I'm going to put them into my content calendar, I'm going to distribute them on different channels. And and but I've already had it done. Now I have 10 pieces of content that I can cut up, I can Evergreen. And that's another thing. A lot of people think that just because you film something on one particular day that it has to be used that day, and it doesn't, you can create content around the sort of the idea of documenting stuff, and then use it in a future state or reuse it in a future state or repurpose it for a future state. It doesn't have to be that one to one I post it. So now I have to share it. Like build a library of content. Yep. Build, keep building it. Keep building it.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah. And like you said, you had this all done before 9am, where most people are just showing up to lock onto their computers, right?

Deevo Tindall:

Well, I have the benefit of working from home. Yeah, a lot of times, so I'm able to, to afford myself that luxury, if you will. But again, I refuse to hear from people who say that they don't have time for it. Because then when I sit down and break down their calendar with them, and I take a look at if you were to spin here's here's a great exercise for anybody's doubting me. Take a notebook today, today, start first thing tomorrow morning. And I want you to literally document your entire day. And I want you to take a look at literally at the end of the day, had lunch from 1126 to well 45. It was on my Instagram from 1245, et cetera, right? And then at the end of the day, if you look at those notes, and you can honestly tell me that you couldn't find 30 minutes or an hour somewhere in that gap of wasted time, then okay, cool. But I would bet that 99% of the people, once they journaled themselves for the day would be able to see gaps where they could reprioritize reward reorganize their day, put their phone away, not be scrolling through it and get get this done something for themselves.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yep. Bingo. I do this exercise with my students a lot. And it's just thinking about how a lot of times we've never learned time management and what a powerful tool it can be. So thinking then, you know, digital media, I'm thinking about our leaders out there who are trying to stand out, like you said, move from just an industry player to gold standard. What are some of the best practices for them on LinkedIn?

Deevo Tindall:

I think for me, that's a great question, because I'm totally with LinkedIn right now. And one of the strategies that I have found first and foremost, it has to be consistent. And secondly, there has to be some sort of a value value add, but you can't just show up and talk about your promotion or, or everything. For me, I like to shake things up. And I don't want to just post the same stuff, because everyone's posting the exact same thing. So and it's not shake things up so that you look like this rogue rebel. I'm not saying that. But like, if you if you are speaking about, let's say you're a business coach, because I work with a lot of business coaches, and you're training other people and entrepreneurs, CEOs, etc. Think about some of the things that you tell them that you might sort of have a little bit of a tendency to not share in public. How can you reframe that information and put that out there? Again, the idea is to be able to add value, respect the rules, but do not be afraid to bend the rules. Be a leader who speaks not just to inform people, but really challenges and stimulate sort of this new way of thinking I think because you're in this position, with, with with access to eight and a half billion people like, truly, you have the opportunity to use this as it's not just an echo chamber, but to really introduce some of the fresh perspectives that you have, that you have in your mind or these ideas that you have. And don't just come at it from a standpoint of like, I'm just here to disrupt, but lead with a blend of wisdom and some daring and, and it's sort of like, it's sort of like where tradition meets innovation, if you will, like how can you find that small little break in and without being too audacious, but at the same time being a little bit bold and calculated and how you address stuff. And be be curious, take a look at what other people are doing. And then say, Okay, I see 10 out of it. Nine out of the 10 people that I'm I've just followed basically said the same thing. What what is it that I'm really good at and passionate about that I can share that might add some value to them. And don't just deliver it in the same way. And don't be afraid to use different methodologies to deliver your message. Like don't always just post text, maybe get on a video, maybe do a LinkedIn live, maybe post a recorded video, I'm not saying you have to dance, you're never gonna see me dance. But you know, be original man, everyone, everyone else has already taken like you're the only one left. So be you.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah, that is really, really helpful. And I love that idea of respecting rules, but not being afraid of to ban them. And you just said it so beautifully, that intersection of tradition and innovation, because we don't want to alienate those who are more traditional and have taken that path and lean into that. But we also don't want to get stuck there, either. Yeah,

Deevo Tindall:

I give you a perfect example of this. Because people are like, Oh, that's easy. And I mean, sorry, that's really difficult. And it's easy for you, you do it all the time. But I was once you I had to start somewhere once before as well. And so, you know, today's post on LinkedIn that I recorded is going to be centered around it's a video, I just literally put my phone in on my on my tripod, and I just recorded a quick video. And one of the things that was it came from a conversation I was having last week with my workout buddy. We go to the gym every morning at five o'clock. And we were sort of sitting there He's like, he's like, do you know I can never get you to answer your phone. And I was like, Dude, how many times I have to tell you just text me first. And I'll call you back. My phone is never turned on. I will not answer the phone. Answering the phone is a death trap for distraction. There are only three people who have access to my phone, my two kids and my wife. And they can call me anytime they want. They can get me on anytime they want that you can set up your phone for emergency contacts to get there. But anything else, forget about it, you're never going to answer the phone and the Phone doesn't even ring. And it's because in my business, I own two businesses, I've got a bunch of other stuff going on. My phone would literally ring me all day long. And so my post today is like, Okay, some of you are gonna probably call me crazy for saying this. But turn your goddamn phone off. Because your phone might literally my phone's turned off all day long. I will not touch my phone during business hours. Because I don't want to get stuck in the Instagram or the LinkedIn trap. I don't want to be answering the phone. And here's another sidebar that he brought up. That wasn't even my point. He's like, you know, that's a really good point. Because, especially if you're taking work calls all the time, maybe there's things that you're not necessarily prepared to answer right then and there. So if you if they can leave you a message, it gives you an opportunity to sort of prepare for that calls and understand how you can best show up, maybe there's some answers, you need to research yada, yada. So for me, again, it's that sort of like a bit of an outlier perspective. Don't ever answer your phone, especially if I'm in a service based industry. So like, that's a pretty big move for me to say. But dude, I have 25 ways to get back to you. I can text you, I can call you back. If I must, I can DM you like there's a million other ways that we can connect. I'm just never going to answer the phone because that's a death trap for me. Yeah,

Dr. Leah OH:

no, I love that. I think that's a perfect way to like you said, acknowledge tradition pushed boundaries a bit. That too, as you you and your friend point out the immediacy of it. So it's taking your time. And then many of us aren't at our best when it's prompted out of the blue in an area where our mind isn't currently working. So we're not giving our best self. So I love that idea of being able to take that few minutes, even if you call right back to look into what the question is, have that solid response that you feel good about. Yeah.

Deevo Tindall:

And I even have a voice message set up that says, hey, I'm not answering phones right now. But if this is urgent, send me a text message. And I'll get right back to you. And what that does is it empowers the other person to say you're not a dick. I'm not just ignoring your phone call. But you can certainly drop me a text message and we can have this exchange in a matter of seconds. And if that requires a phone call, I'll make it I'll make a point to call you back. But the thing of it is, is like if I'm in the middle of a podcast right now with you, and I'm over here seeing my phone, I'm ringing, I'm answering like, Okay, what happens you get distracted from all the things that you're focusing on and then you get off going down rabbit holes of all these other things. And it's like shit, man, I gotta get back to the app. I forgot what I was doing. So for me, it's all about like staying in my lane working on the things that I'm doing to get those done, move on to the next task and that just gets in the way and so I created this So social media video around it, because for me, that's a little bit edgy. I have a different perspective on it. But people are going to see that and like, I hate that idea, or I really love that idea. So the whole idea is a sort of like for offer this information that people that make them think that make them ask that makes them question themselves. So you want you don't want to just create boring content, you want to put stuff out there that that starts conversations, right?

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Awesome, awesome. Example, in my next question, actually, we could continue with this, because now I'm thinking what are those expectations for engaging with followers or reacting to comments? So you may have some people like you settling like, what? This Nope, this would never work for me, or I love this great idea. That how do you coach people and finding that balance there?

Deevo Tindall:

So the question is, how do I coach people in finding the balance? And how to respond to their comments? Is that really?

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah, how much do we engage? How much do Yeah, man,

Deevo Tindall:

if you're, if you're not a celebrity, you should be responding to every single comment you get especially early in the game. Now as your profile grows, and you become really famous and popular, which all the power to you, then you know, you have some you sort of have have an excuse to not respond to a million people that might be respond. But there's a venture to guess that about 95% of us aren't those people. And we have small onesie twosie engagements, and you know, if you don't have the time to sit back a quick message to 10 people, then you should probably not be on social media. Because the whole point of being on social media is big idea here, be social, right? engage in a conversation. Like if I saw you in your office, man, I walked up to you and was like, hey, Penny, how's it going? Are you just gonna turn around and walk away today? I love how you dress today. And I loved you that keynote yesterday, when you're talking to friends, it was like, really? Are you just gonna turn around and walk away? No, you're gonna engage me in a conversation. So if people are taking the time to engage with you, you sure as hell better take the time to engage back. And if you don't want to engage for any other reason, the algorithm will reward you. So if you got to play on this paradigm, if you're going to play in this sandbox, you might as well try to use some of the rules to your advantage. So you should be responding to everybody. And you should also be proactive about how you engage. And this is where I falter. But going out and engaging with people proactively not from a selfish perspective, like, hey, follow me checkout, like, don't go on and be like, Hey, you should come check out my class do literally take the time. Hey, I saw Lee, I saw your post yesterday on on on being leadership in a corporate space. And I thought what you said was absolutely genius, but had a question about it. Could you answer is like have a real freaking conversation with people. And you'll see what happens. Because once you're engaging with them, and you're talking with them, other people see that and they still like, hey, I want to join in this conversation. And then before you know, you start having these multiple conversations, the compound effect kicks in. And before you know you got people like all over coming to the checkout section. So yeah, man, you should always be you should always be engaging, always. And

Dr. Leah OH:

I love that comparison to your right. If this was someone walking by my office, I would not turn my bathroom. Shut the door. And that's a good thing to remember. Is there there? Maybe not.

Deevo Tindall:

Yeah, social media is designed to be social. That's the whole point of it. You have an audience all over the world that is waiting to hear some amazing intellectual thought see that you could potentially share with them, the freaking share with them get out there and do it start right now. Just start doing it. There's you have nothing else to lose. And that's the other thing. That's crazy to me. You asked that question earlier. What do you have to lose? Yeah.

Dr. Leah OH:

What do you have to lose? Exactly. Exactly. Now, what

Deevo Tindall:

do you have to lose? Yeah, you have everything to gain, but you'd literally have nothing to lose. So go out there. Go be

Dr. Leah OH:

is a perfect segue to my next question. So I'm wondering, not necessarily about losing. But are there potential risks or pitfalls for people who are, you know, dive into these digital platforms to promote their ideas and successes? Is there anything? Yeah,

Deevo Tindall:

I mean, there was always risks with everything. I think you just have to mitigate those risks. And just understand why you're showing up. I have a really interesting story to share. I'm in the middle of hiring a social media manager right now. And I was sharing the story last week of the keynote I was doing and people thought I was crazy. And I was like, No, I'll show you if you really want to see. So I'm hiring the Social Media Manager. And she fits all the boxes like, fantastic, right? And so I get her in an interview, and we're having this conversation and we're going back and forth. And I was like, this woman is a rock star like, what am I missing here? Yeah. So anyway, she shares her social media channels with me so I can sort of see what she's doing. And I'm like, Whoa, like, censorship tag needs to be put up, right? Like, the risks are, if you're showing up as a social media manager for other people that you're going to be offering your services. Do you sure as hell better have your ducks lined up on your own and you probably should not be putting that information out there if you don't want people to see it, because if I'm going to ask you, for example, you hire me to do your social media, you're most likely going to connect with this woman, and then you're most likely going to ask to follow her, and you're most likely is gonna go check her out. And then you're gonna be like, dude, who's managing my social media? So yeah, the risks are like, it's a double edged sword, like play your cards, right? Understand why you're here, add value. And just remember, every single piece of content you put out there can be seen by every single person on the world. And if you're saying things that you don't want to say, or that you said, in anger, you said in a passionate moment of throes of something. It's out there like you can't reverse it, you might be able to delete it. But somebody's I mean, how many times do we see politicians getting in trouble for some nonsense, or celebrities getting trouble for some tweet they put out, so just like everything else, kind of police yourself, understand your value, understand your thought seed, and go out there. And remember that everything you put out there will be seen by somebody, and it's inescapable. So just understand that space and just operate with sort of like, a pragmatic enthusiasm, if you will, like, bridle yourself here and there. Yes.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah. It's like I always tell students, if this can go on Tinder, it's not going on these. Like absolutely litmus test, save

Deevo Tindall:

your only fans content for all the fans. Okay, girlfriend. We appreciate you. But we don't need to be seeing that. Yeah. Sadly, I don't need that in my LinkedIn profile.

Dr. Leah OH:

Right. So, devo. I have two final questions for you. So I'm the communicative leader, we leave listeners, its pragmatic leadership or communication tips, advice, challenges. So first one, what recommendations do you have for our title leaders out there?

Deevo Tindall:

So in terms of just in general, or

Dr. Leah OH:

whatever you want, and we can do it with personal branding, or if you have other things with all of the folks you're working with, that you think other title leaders need to

Deevo Tindall:

hear? I think, you know, there's not a lot of original content left in the world, and a lot of the things that I'm saying have been recycled by people for for hundreds of years. So I think the idea is, it's in your delivery. So how maybe can you redefine what you want to share, so that how you share it with people is is is more memorable is more unique. And again, I'm not the only person in the world that has podcasts. I'm not the only person who does branding, and only person who takes photography. But just like every photo, you know, there's a different way to paint this picture, there's a different way and I may, you and I may be have the same subject matter. And we were challenged to create the same photo, right? And but you're gonna go take it from a unique perspective, and I'm going to take it from a unique perspective, I'm going to use light here, etc. So how can you do the same thing with everything else you deliver? How can you? How can you find a unique disposition, so that you can redefine what it is you want to deliver so that you don't look like everyone else? And probably, I guess for me, how can you continually add value, it's really important that you're adding value and not just showing up as a win horns, and being able to communicate your value with, with some clarity and maybe a bit a little hint of Audacity from time to time, like, curiosity, critical thinking and courage are sort of like the big three for me curiosity, critical thinking and courage, like, how can you be curious to learn perpetually, so that you can grow and continually add to your tool belt? And how can you critically think so that you don't sound like everyone else? So you've taken the time to sort of absorb the knowledge, reframe it, rework it, understand its impact, and then how can you have the courage to share that with people so that they also can get value. And then the final piece for me, and this is really what I say to everybody show up to serve first, really, and that sounds cliche, and I'm not being good samaritan here, you will never see me sell anywhere on social media. Most people know I'm selling, like I'm selling a service, like you already know, when you come to my page, this is what I do. This is why I do it. This I'm gonna do it. And if you like what I'm saying, there's gonna be a conversation and opportunity to sell, but don't do it all the time. Like add some value to people. Don't be afraid to give things and serve people. And it's crazy when you when you reframe that and take that position of things. Other people can see that and smell that incense that and they're gonna be more inclined to engage with you instead of putting up their like X mark to get away from you.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah, yes. Yeah. So, so helpful. And really pragmatic. And I love that because they the focus of this podcast is helping people to change their work life now, right without years of extra schooling or new technology or purchases. So the really helpful in this last question, so usually done asked about employees of all ranks and industries. But they'll ask you answer that really well. So I'm wondering about our new grads or folks who are switching industries, and then people who are identifying as a novice. How do they how do you recommend they start to do they dip a toe into this or do they dive right in what do you what do you recommend? Man,

Deevo Tindall:

so diving into social media diving into entrepreneurship diving into what particular I think

Dr. Leah OH:

the personal branding kind of establishing themselves was

Deevo Tindall:

the reason why you can't start now I think the first piece is really just getting some clarity take some time, I you know, I had this in my keynote last week, I had a couple of college grads that were still in college that attended this session that was mostly filled with 4040. And older professionals, which I was like, and they sat and they sat in the very front of the room. And I was like, dude, let me give you guys high fives right now, because this is like a good move. This is a Moxie move right here. Most people your age are out, you know, drinking and doing something silly, whatever. And you're still in college, and you decided to come to a business professional networking event to hear me know, like, that's kind of a big deal. So for me, I think the first thing would, would be be very, very curious about what your value is, and take some time to break that down. So that you can develop your personal brand around something, and don't just say, Hey, I'm gonna develop this personal brand, so that I can become famous and make lots of money. That's the output. Remember, that's the output. But the journey is going to require you to have some strategy behind it to get there. And so before you can step into that journey, you sort of have to have some GPS coordinates, but I'm dropping all kinds of colloquialisms today and metaphors, but have some coordinates, if you will, like understand where you want to go with this. And know And know this, that that end wherever, wherever it is, how audacious it might be, there's a process along the way, that's going to require you to be iterative, and flexible, and nimble and adaptive, and all those things, and consistent and just consistently grow into that. So I think the first advice that was really long winded is just sort of like get some clarity around your value and understand how you want to show up in the world. And then once you've done that, start, hire a photographer, man, go spend a day with somebody out in wherever, whatever your landscape is, and spend some time creating some content around yourself. Don't just rely on yourself to take selfies, like for a few $100, you can hire a photographer to spend two or three hours with you just to create some content. Or if you don't want to do that, go invest in a decent microphone. And again, and then just start documenting, I think I think people get too carried away with creating something, as opposed to documenting, everything should be documented. If you're going to start using social media to your advantage, you've got to arm it with with ammunition. And then ammunition is in the form of documenting things. So you have a good idea, if you were to open up my phone, like I'll just tell you right now, like I'll just there's probably I'm just gonna tell you how many have that I haven't even done with anything with. I have 8012 108 8000 Sorry, 80,000 different notes or comments that I've put into my phone, about things or ideas or stuff that I want to follow up on or do. And I organize that based upon social media posts or business ideas, and just start writing things down. And journaling is like really start building and fleshing this out. So that you can start putting something together. It's like building a resume, you know, like, you don't just sit down and be like, Hey, I did like you take the time to sort of sort and organize all the things you're good at. And all the things that you want to step into. So you're building your personal brand is not different is not really dissimilar to that.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah, that is it's really helpful. And I like the I think so many people don't understand how you go from A to Z, and you recognize it is that journey. And when we're documenting along the way, we have some really great content that can help serve others and recognizing I've been there. Look at these posts a while ago.

Deevo Tindall:

I've been there too. I mean, it's it again, I think the problem with especially with younger generations, since that's what you're talking about are people in general, because we live in this. We live in this age of like instant gratification, we have everything at our fingertips, we have microwave ovens, we have food delivered to our doors, we have anything we possibly want can be delivered within a matter of hours to our front doorstep. You know, we can basically do, we've never had, I don't know if there's ever been a time in the history of this stage of humanity, where we've had so much potential and opportunities to deliver something to someone else or receive something and so, but the downside of that as we've sort of got caught up into this sort of concept of like, oh, I want to be famous now I expect to make the money. Oh, it's like, dude, yeah, the world doesn't always operate on instant microwave delivery. There's got to be a process you got to build, you got to break you got to build you got to build. So I got to remind myself that as well on a regular basis. It's not It's me. I suffer from like, Wait, I didn't get that contract last week. Like when you start worrying about it. Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent,

Dr. Leah OH:

I'll stop. No, no, that's really really helpful at the same thing. I you know, my dad always said Leah, they call it work for a reason. And that's what I lean into in those days when it feels harder than the other days. Well, debo, thank you so much for sharing your time, your expertise. This has really been a blast. But more importantly, I know what's really going to help listeners.

Deevo Tindall:

I appreciate the time thank you for having me on as a guest I really loved it.

Dr. Leah OH:

All right, my friends. That wraps up our conversation today. Until next time, you indicate with intention and lead with purpose. And looking forward to chatting with you again soon. I'm the communicative leader

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