The Communicative Leader

The Power of Trust: Building Authentic Relationships for Successful Leadership: A Conversation with Nikita Kumar

• Dr. Leah OH / Nikita Kumar • Season 4 • Episode 10

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Nikita Kumar is a Podcast Success Manager at Pikkal & Co, where she integrates complex narratives into engaging content.

In this episode of The Communicative Leader, Nikita talks to us about the role of leadership and communication in the podcast industry, but really leaves us with a masterclass in building authentic relationships.

Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose.

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Dr. Leah OH:

Nikita Kumar is a podcast Success Manager at Pikkal & Co, where she integrates complex narratives into engaging content. In this episode of the communicative leader Nikita talks to us about the role of leadership and communication in the podcast industry. But what she really leaves us with is a masterclass in building authentic relationships. Hello, and welcome to the communicative leader hosted by me, Dr. Leah Omilion-Hodges. My friends call me Dr. OH. I'm a professor of communication and leadership communication expert, and the communicative leader, we're working to make your work life what you want it to be. Nikita, thank you so much for joining us on the communicative leader. I'm really excited to have you and kind of thinking about from an expert, you know how we leverage our expertise in kind of this brave new world of podcasts. So, before we dive in and learn more about your experience, can you can introduce yourself and kind of help us to understand where you're coming from.

Nikita Kumar:

So my name is Nikita, thank you so much for having me on this podcast. I'm very excited. I am the podcast Success Manager at pickle and CO we are a corporate podcast production company. So we offer services helping large companies with their brand new podcasts. I have been in this role for about a year now, over a year. And it is, it's been interesting to say the least, my usual experience is sales. So I've been in sales. Since I left university, I've done something very different than the university and on a law degree. So leaving going into sales, and now being in the podcast industry is a complete 360 For me, but suits me, I enjoy it. Excellent. And I think a year in an organization is a really neat position, because you've kind of got over the newness, but you still have an outside perspective and a lot of ways that those who've been there, three, five more years, they kind of lose that. So I'm wondering, again, this is a leadership communication, podcast user, my happy areas. And as I was preparing for our interview, I was thinking about, you know, how do you define effective leadership in the context of podcast success management? And then kind of looking at the second part, how does communication play a role in this for me, my experience ABC, currently it's dealing with people within the podcasting industry. So you're dealing with creatives here, and leadership within these sorts of industries are quite difficult. But being a creative myself, I find that what is best is being able to inspire and motivate whoever you're working with. I think that from my own experience with managing a team, when I first left university, I didn't finish my degree, I wasn't so good with structure and kind of just being I found that a lot of my life up until leaving university was people just kind of telling me what to do. And when I left and went into the working world, it was kind of more of the same. So when I started in this role, I found that how management I'd experienced management previously was being given a lot of structure being told you need to do A, B and C. So when I started leading within my own team, I found that the best, it's more less about the experience you have with leadership and more about how you genuinely tend to approach and deal with situations and communicate within your team. So most importantly, they need to trust you. And the best to happen is obviously through your communication being open. So fostering an environment where there's open communication and everyone feels comfortable sharing their thoughts and looking for feedback. In my previous companies that I had been in, where I wasn't in a leadership position, quite a few of them. I found that I was alright. I was always worried to give feedback and worried to tell them what my true and honest opinions were. So when it came to being able to lead a team myself, those were the most important things to me. is having open communication knowing that if anyone within my team, anyone at all was honest with me, it's not going to be met with anything that will make them feel less comfortable to open up to me next time. Yeah, I want them to look for the feedback and know that it's coming from a good place where we all want the same goal. And we all want the same things.

Dr. Leah OH:

And live this I can tell you, as a leadership scholar, you are engaging in more sophisticated effective leadership than many people who've been doing this for decades. Because you understand the importance of communication and then without trust, you know, and, and I think that's something I always come back to is distressing news can be palatable, if it is communicated in an audience centered way. So so I'm sure there are things that team members have to tell you or something didn't go as planned. And that's, that's not fun. But it's important that you know, it, it's better than them feeling so much fear, or anxiety or apprehension that they withhold information that you will need. So thank you for that really good work that you're doing.

Nikita Kumar:

Thank you. Yeah, I feel, I feel that for me, personally, I haven't gone through those experiences. So recently, because I've only been doing this for just over a year. It's nice, because I still have that time to make sure that you know, in five years, I don't forget what I feel now. And what I know now is still so fresh in my way. And every time a situation arises with anyone within my team or anything in my life in general, whenever any situation arises, I can connect it back to how I once felt very easily. It's fresh in my memory. So I'm just right now trying to keep those experiences so that I can apply them better, or like

Dr. Leah OH:

now. Yeah, yeah, that is phenomenal. And that leads us to kind of the extension of that question, some thinking about measuring success. And then we can think about this in in your professional life, as you said, and you kind of talked about how, when we have that strong communication and trust, it impacts our, you know, all areas of our life in positive ways. So how do you measure the success of podcasts in terms of leadership and communication? Or what are other key indicators, performance indicators that you track?

Nikita Kumar:

So when we talk about tracking, when I specifically talked about tracking success, it's usually and even the clients that asked me what are we going to track, I do have to often say to them, it's obviously the many figures that we track, it's the downloads monthly weekly progression that they want to know, for me personally. And what we know is that the rule of success and the most important thing that we track that determines the success of a podcast is the behavior that leads to the release of an episode that reflects in the results. So it's the attitudes of those within the team. And their behaviors. For example, the best podcasts that we work with that end up seeing growth, quickest. And the most success as well are the ones where there is one person within that client team leading the motivation, one person who's really enthusiastic, who really wants to have a lot of meetings with us regular meetings with their own internal podcast teams as well. Which means that they're getting together and talking about it as much as possible. It's always at the forefront of their mind, because they are actively communicating about their commerce. It's also those that are planning. So there's one initiator within the team that's really motivated, leading all of it. And it's also the podcast teams, where their plans are regularly updated. So how many episodes do they have in the plan? And if they have a lot, then those tend to be the ones that do the best because it shows how much motivation and communication there is within their team.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah, excellent. I love that idea of it being the highly communicative those who are planning strategically and and demonstrating the excitement that you really see as being poised for success. So Nikita, I'm I'm interested in, you know, resolving conflict or other challenges I imagine, especially in your industry that's ever evolving. You have creatives you know, there's a lot At, that's on your plate. So I'm wondering if you can share a specific example of a time when your leadership or communication, when these skills, you really use them to turn around either a struggling podcast, or maybe there was a conflict that you're able to navigate in a way you're really proud of.

Nikita Kumar:

So I think, for me, the most memorable time is when I had joined this company quite early on. And there were one or two podcasts that were slowly dwindling off their hub, their publishing calendars. And I, the best way that I could find out how to resolve that was to set up meetings with them, speak to them, find out what was actually happening, and then figure out how to resolve it, I think, having a touch point with these because usually we have, we have a process for every client, and we go through those motions. And we're constantly providing support. But I think, speaking to one in particular, who had kind of stopped publishing, and we had no idea why I sat in meetings, and they then explained that there was some movement internally within their team. So they had lost one internal member. And that one who was that one was quite important in the production process kind of caused a roadblock. But after speaking through that, because obviously, we have the expertise with the podcast, we can kind of I was able to kind of place myself in as first and then help them with the tasks that that team member had. So if they were dealing, they were dealing as the working as a project manager, that that part of the podcast, and I was able to step in and do that for them, basically. So I think, I think where they were the communication skills and leadership came in with what they were struggling with was where I actually inserted myself as a bridge to where they had lost that kind of part initially.

Dr. Leah OH:

That makes sense. I love that. Yeah, that's a great story. And I love when you said amending bridge, because when you are talking about that, I was thinking of how this intersection of leadership and communication really is where problem solving lives in kind of innovation lives. And that's exactly what you're speaking to. So I think that's great. And again, anytime we can kind of lean into the relationships and let people know, I see you some you know what's going on, let's have a let's have a touch base, so that we can figure this out collaboratively, really goes a long way in helping people to get unstuck, and to get back on their plan. Exactly. So Nikita, I'm going to ask you again about relationship building. And this is something that you do really beautifully. And, you know, so when I think about leadership, communication, I think so much of it, if we distilled it to one word, it would be relationships. And so I'm wondering if you could share with us how you approach building and maintaining these strong relationships with clients and partners in in this industry.

Nikita Kumar:

For me, it would be and I've mentioned this, I think a few times already, but it is just really showing them some you're someone they can trust. So building that relationship of trust, so you're someone who's going to help them, you have the same goals as them, we in particular, have the expertise to be able to show them that we can support them stably and we are part of their team. We're not just you know, an external, external company coming in to help we'll give them a service. We're actually part of their team and we're collaborating on something and we have the same common goal in mind. With me, in particular, I found that going into these teams as someone new the best way to gain their trust was honestly for me to just be myself and show up as their friends. I know that usually there is this, there is this thing and especially because we work with corporate companies there is this thing about maintaining professionalism, which you can always do, but you can do it at the same time as being friendly and I think When I used to work in companies previously had I known what I know, now, then I probably would have been very successful there too. When I previously worked in companies, I sort of got the idea that in whatever position or scenario I was in, for some reason, I had the idea that you shouldn't be too friendly with people. I now learn that I think, for me, that is the incorrect way to go about it. Because I can't be anything other than myself, I've always been told that I may have too expressive or too open or too honest, or something like that. But from what I've found, is being open, honest and expressive, has made all of my clients pretty much trust me quicker than I even anticipated them to. So that way they're able to, they will see that I am really trying to help them on we're not just, you know, providing them a service getting paid, etc, like I am here, as a part of their team, their failures are my failures, their successes on my successes. So that's what I find works best with relationship building.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah, and thank you such a beautiful, complex, but also simple response. And I is taking some notes. And I love that idea of saying showing up as their friend and as their colleague, because the way we approach that, of course, we still have boundaries and friendships and with colleagues, but again, you have that shared camaraderie, you know that it's going to be more collaborative. Like you said, your successes are mine, your failures are mine. And I just, I love that advice of leaning into who you are. Because I still I work with so many students and even adults who will come to me for leadership consults and saying, I want to be this type of leader, I want to project this and then say that, then it feels like an act doesn't Yeah, like you. Let's see who you are, and how we amplify these amazing qualities that you have. Yes, thank you for that, that thoughtful response. So we're gonna jump now to storytelling. And this is something I mean, I guess it's a buzzword now. But I'm happy about it. Because when we think of stories, we think about, you know, characters and settings and timelines, and narrative structure in these things. I know, as a teacher, as a parent, these really help people connect with content, they help them, you know, forge those emotional relationships and remember things. So I'm wondering, from your perspective, if you can talk to us about, you know, that idea of storytelling, of thinking about structure, and how we can use these elements to enhance engagement with listeners.

Nikita Kumar:

I think that storytelling is the most important thing for engagement. I feel like everyone can think back on their own experiences and conversations with people. And we're constantly mentioning, one time this happened, or there was one time someone once told me this, and we're telling our own stories day to day ourselves. They are the most memorable things, and with podcasts in particular, is it's the fact that you are keeping their attention for a long time and pulling them into a deep discussion. So we're always communicating and we move on to the next topic, and then we move on to the next topic, they're not really able to form attachment to what they're listening to. We, me personally, being in this industry, it's good for me, because I'm everyone as a deep thinker, but I go on tangents into the deep, dark recesses of my mind. And for me, that's what podcasts are they are, it's more than what you would get from something that is a one off piece of content. And by doing that you're able to create a community around your content as well. And what I often tend to refer to podcasts as is similar to a TV show. If you were to get like a 30 minute really good program or even a movie that's a one off and it's not, there's not a sequel to the movie. When there's sequels, you're just waiting for the next part. You're really really engaged. You're waiting for the next time it's, it's like a missing part of you. It's on unfinished. So I think, with podcasts to really keep the listeners engaged and make sure that you are you are you are forming something that is of importance to people, the best way to do that is to really bring them in with creating a community and creating like a story out of your content. So like a serialized program, is what I say is something that they know that this is unfinished, there's more to be learned here. This is not the end of the story. And they want to keep coming back.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yes, yes. In love, if you think about kind of the intent of podcasters, right, they want that community that attachment, that retention that you're talking about. And but I think what happens more often, unfortunately, is an alternative where it's just kind of chunking information and kind of tossing out. Again, it can be very valuable content. But if it's not done in this audience centered way, then it's, you know, maybe you're there for the moment, you're listening, but you're not leaving a lasting mark with an audience.

Nikita Kumar:

Exactly. Like if it's something that they really engage with one episode is something that they really engage with, and they like it, and then you move to something completely different, you don't create kind of long story with your content strategy. They will drop off, they're not going to come back for something that's different. So I think it starts really in the planning stages. And obviously, initially, you can kind of test out what works best for the audience. But eventually, you will have to create something nice. Each episode will need to be connected to each other to build that engagement with your listeners. Yeah,

Dr. Leah OH:

very helpful. And I think that's a really nice segue to this next question, because one thing I have been seeing in a change in the podcast industry, I'm sure this is something you've noticed for as long as you've been in this area, but more organizations and even individual departments and leaders are starting to do internal podcasts for audiences for you know, enhancing engagement, or internal communication. So in that area, Nikita, what what advice do you have for these leaders or organizations or communication managers, folks who are kind of dipping a toe in this area? Or who are thinking about it?

Nikita Kumar:

Yeah, I think that it is absolutely something that they should go ahead with. My own personal advice would be that it is obviously very easy to do yourself. However, if you do have a good podcast production team, it will help you be able to focus on the actual content yourself. So in terms of the content advice there is that authenticity is really the key to all the open communication being as honest as possible. This is kind of, if you were to start a podcast for your company and internal podcast, the best way to move forward with it is to make sure that you are communicating things that you're not necessarily able to communicate one on a one to one basis. So obviously, leaders don't get to always speak to every single person within their team for an hour a day or two hours a day, they're not able to give advice that they've given to one person in the team on a specific quarter every they're not able to go around and then give it to every single person. But this is where an internal podcast is useful, because they are actually able to do that. I think the best way to do it is to what be authentically open, be honest, maybe even thinking of it in a way as what what have I not been able to tell them that I really want to have like an hour to sit down with each and every employee? What conversation is it that you would have with them? What would you tell them? What advice would you give them? The goal of the whole internal podcast, whether it's to tell them about upcoming news within the company, or to just pray about a team environment? I think the goal with all of it is to make them feel as if they are you're speaking directly to them. So if it is one hour then it is to the best thing to do is to prioritize what it is that what kind of advice you would want to put forward what kind of communication you want to set as the standard for your employees and yourself within the company. And it could even be a turning point for them to be able to feel more comfortable with you, comfortable communicating with you, giving you feedback, asking for feedback. So the most important thing is being authentic and open and honest.

Dr. Leah OH:

Thank you, that's a really, really thoughtful response. Because I think the the few that I have seen, as you pointed out, they they've been really redundant. So they're just reiterating the news that's going out and the newsletter or, and and I know that that's a missed mark. So it's helpful when you can give this advice and thinking like if you just had those 30 or 60 minutes, what does every employee need to know. And thinking about a specific employee, even though we're reaching money, it makes it more likely to connect and be vibrant and

Nikita Kumar:

memorable and worth their time to? Yeah, something that they want to think that they want to listen to something different that they haven't necessarily heard from you before. Add value add value to them.

Dr. Leah OH:

Yeah, and I have a follow up with that question, Nikita. So what would your advice be if you have a manager or a CEO come and say, How much personality do I put in? Because we can we talked about that professionalism and feeling like we need to act in a certain way, in certain positions in organizations? So how would you coach someone, again, that CEO, for example, how do you coach them to integrate personality or not to integrate personality? I'm just really interested in your thoughts.

Nikita Kumar:

So I add, as from this whole conversation, I encourage being yourself. Being yourself professionally. So yes, how much personality they would want to put in, I would say that it needs to be, it needs to be it needs to feel natural to them, it can't be putting on a show if they do want to go back and rethink obviously, the good thing with podcasts, as we both know is that you can edit things out. Yeah, my advice would be to be 9590 90% yourself, that 10% You can leave at home for your most close loved 90% yourself, because anything other than that is not natural. And people can tell whether they know it straightaway, or just have a feeling they can tell if you're not being genuine, and it's not something that they'll be able to buy into and really connect with and engage with. So I'd say 90%, yourself, bearing in mind that you are speaking to your employees and what, what their goals are there. So yeah, I would say be be yourself as much as possible, because it's not really possible to be anything other than yourself, and everyone is perfect the way that they are. It's just it's just the way it's just how you enhance everything about yourself. Yes,

Dr. Leah OH:

I really I appreciate that response. Thank you. And it's so helpful. And so freeing for people to I think sometimes people feel like they need that permission, especially at certain levels of leadership, and certain different, you know, generational expectations. And so I think having someone say to be successful you need to lean into you is probably what they need to hear.

Nikita Kumar:

Yeah, that's the only way that you'll be happy doing what you do. And the best leaders are the ones that are happy with what they're doing. So, yes,

Dr. Leah OH:

yeah. So Nikita, I have two final questions for you. And these go hand in hand and on every episode of the communicative leader, we end with advice for our titled leaders and then for all employees across ranks.

Nikita Kumar:

I would say that a advice that I would give or a tip that I would give would be for everyone absolutely everyone. Personally from my own it would be from my own experience, it'd be from my own experience of leaving university without a degree which was very difficult to do. and then falling into multiple job roles, not feeling completely satisfied. And feeling like I wasn't really providing much help, because I wasn't extremely happy within those positions myself. Now finally being happy and having actively looked and searched for a role that I'm, I'm content with, and I actually enjoy, I would say that the advice and the tip that I would give is, make sure that you are doing something that means something to you something that do something that means something to you and do something that aligns with who you are. So, for me personally, an example is that I love to talk to people, I love to have conversations with people. I love communicating in all ways, shapes and forms. So now working within the podcast industry, which is all about conversations and occasion. I am extremely happy. And I've seen myself to be able to do work better than I ever have before. So yeah, I would say make sure you're doing something that aligns with the things that you enjoy.

Dr. Leah OH:

And love that emphasis on reflection and self assessment in a way and saying, you know, we bombard people, especially young adults have so many different messages about what they should do, or what they could do, or what we think that they ought to be doing. And I think a lot of times, all of that noise makes it really challenging to create a space to say, Hang on, what am I happiest? Yeah. What What have I always enjoyed, or at least not seen as, you know, this arduous work I have to get through. And then when you figure out some of those things, like you're saying, let that communication and interacting and relationship building. And that can be really, really a gift to then say when we're where and how can I do this? Where can I be my best

Nikita Kumar:

self? Yeah, exactly. I think especially today in society. I think previously, it used to be more of a one size fits all method to every communication, leadership, every job, but I think the best lesson that I've learned and I want everyone else to learn as well is that there isn't one size that fits all. There's a million ways to get from A to Z.

Dr. Leah OH:

Exactly. Yeah. So Nikita, I want to thank you again for joining us today on the communicative leader. I've really enjoyed our conversation. I appreciate what you're doing in the workplace. And again, as a leadership scholar, most often I hear from employees who have managers they can't connect with that they're afraid of that they you know, really walk on eggshells around and I think you forgiving your team, a different experience.

Nikita Kumar:

Thank you so much. It was really nice being on this podcast. And I learned a lot about myself during this conversation as well. I hope I provided some insightful value to the audience as well.

Dr. Leah OH:

All right, my friends. That wraps up our conversation today. Until next time, you indicate with intention and lead with purpose. I'm looking forward to chatting with you again soon on the communicative leader.

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