The Communicative Leader
On The Communicative Leader, we're making your work life what you want it to be. Do you need years of training or special equipment? Not at all my friends. Simple, yet thoughtful changes in your communication can make great strides in displaying your leadership ability. And why the heck should you care about leadership communication? Well, communication is the yardstick others use to determine whether or not they see you as a leader. Ahhh don't be scared, I got you. We will walk through common organizational obstacles and chat about small, but meaningful communication-rooted changes you can integrate immediately. No more waiting for the workplace to become what you hope it will. Nope. You, my friends, will be empowered and equipped to make those changes. Let's have some fun! Can't get enough?
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The Communicative Leader
Standing her ground: Building a presence as a woman developing her career in STEM - A Conversation with Sara Buchel
In this conversation, Sara Buchel, a chemical engineer, shares her experiences and insights as a woman in the STEM field.
She discusses the unique challenges she has faced, including imposter syndrome and the need to assert herself as a young professional. She also highlights the significance of work-life balance and the need for leaders to create a team that values expertise and diverse perspectives.
Sarah encourages aspiring leaders in STEM to go after their goals and surround themselves with a wide range of people with different aspirations.
Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose.
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Dr. Leah OH (00:00)
Sarah, thank you so much for joining us today on the communicative leader. I am thrilled to have you here and to learn about your experience. Before we dive in, can you give us a bit of your background and a little bit of the inspiration that led you to pursue a career in the STEM field?
Sara Buchel (00:18)
Yeah, of course. So I graduated from Michigan State University with my bachelor's degree in chemical engineering in 2020. I think I really found like my liking for math and science before that as a kid. But as I was going to decide when I want to get my bachelor's degree in, I knew I wanted something that would help the people and the planet and the things around me. So when that came, you know, I ended up then
moving over into the automotive industry and to within there, I am a group that specializes in automotive safety regulations. And then I'm also doing a little bit of work with electric vehicles. So it's really cool to see that come full circle to where I'm helping people on the planet in my career. So I've been doing that for about three years.
Dr. Leah OH (01:06)
Yeah, that's amazing. And how incredible that so soon in your career, you're already being able to see very tangible direct connections to what you set out to do.
Sara Buchel (01:16)
Yeah, it's definitely awesome.
Dr. Leah OH (01:18)
Yeah. So I'm wondering, again, you're newer into industry, a new younger professional. And we for a long time have talked about the challenges that women face in STEM fields because they often tend to be male dominated. But I'm interested to hear from your perspective, are there some unique challenges that you feel as a woman that you have faced kind of in your training or where you are now?
Sara Buchel (01:47)
Yeah, I definitely think there's some unique challenges. You know, I am pretty lucky the group that I got hired into, they've been super supportive of me, my career aspirations, you know, growing my skill sets. So having that team around me has definitely been awesome and has allowed me to break down some of those barriers. But then also where I'm at in my career is I'm in a group that within my company, I have to provide a lot of guidance to those who are within the company. And
With that, you know, being that natural leadership role, I have felt in some places where some people are a little bit hesitant to follow my guidance. Maybe they find it a little bit easier to push back at times, especially being a younger employee. So, you know, it's a little bit more challenging to stand my ground in those aspects, but then trust myself with the expertise that I have. So I think that kind loops in with some of the challenges I've seen as a woman and a newer employee.
Dr. Leah OH (02:38)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. So it's like this double or triple whammy, I guess, right? Being a young woman in a male dominated field, and then having to make recommendations to those outside of your department, those with, I imagine, you know, big titles and a lot of decision -making power. And that is amazing that you're like, no, I'm leaning into my expertise. This is what these tests tell me. This is what we should do.
Sara Buchel (02:48)
Yeah.
Exactly. And then I think too, even looping in, sometimes I definitely feel imposter syndrome as well, you know, especially being in that type of a role where it's like, I have the expertise, I have the answer in my head, but at times like I can feel more hesitant to provide that guidance just with, you know, where I think some of that imposter syndrome is rooted in just some of the challenges that women face as they try to enter into the STEM field and something that, you know, isn't necessarily as common.
Dr. Leah OH (03:16)
Mm hmm. Yep. Oh, 100%. Yep.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. And that makes me think the, the one episode I did on the imposter, on the imposter, on imposter syndrome is my most downloaded by far. Right. And I think that just shows us that that's something that we all feel from time to time. It's not easy to talk about there. Sometimes it's kind of louder in our minds than others. But for me, that's something I really like to share is like, Nope, this isn't just you of.
Sara Buchel (03:54)
Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (04:08)
You are my 52nd podcast, Sarah. And of all the 51 that have come before that one, I mean, I think it's even like seven to 10 times more downloaded than my next biggest download. So it's just, you know, a little evidence for us to say, okay, not just, not just me. Yeah. So my next question, I'm kind of leaning into leadership now, and I'm wondering how you've used leadership skills to navigate and succeed.
Sara Buchel (04:12)
you
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (04:38)
in a STEM field.
Sara Buchel (04:41)
Yeah, I think, you know, what has really helped me to succeed within the STEM field is, you know, paired up with my leadership skills is also just my positivity. I feel like I'm really open with people. I love to get to know them. So with that and with my team, I've been able to learn so much more about them to where our collaboration is just a lot more effective. And then we understand how each other works and the best way to work through the different problems. So I think, you know, that new, fresh perspective I could also come as being a younger employee.
Dr. Leah OH (04:47)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Sara Buchel (05:09)
being ready to go and address all these challenges and then to bring that to my team members is what has really helped me along so far.
Dr. Leah OH (05:17)
Yeah. Yeah. And I love that take on it. I like that you're already leaning into relationship building. And again, well, some people might say, oh, she's new or, oh, I'm new. I can't offer anything. Actually you have a perspective. You haven't been in this place, you know, quote unquote, drinking the Kool -Aid for years. You can still bring in fresher eyes that are so helpful. Like once in a while I have colleagues in the field and they're like, I don't want to work with master's students. I only want to work with PhDs.
Sara Buchel (05:35)
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (05:46)
Like the master students don't know yet what they don't know, and it's so helpful because they come in with these ideas without other people's assumptions already kind of pushing on them.
Sara Buchel (05:57)
Exactly. I know that there's been quite a few different tasks that have been given where they're like, all right, like provide your fresh eyes perspective on this. And then, you know, I'll kind of put something together that to me is like, oh yeah, this obviously clicks. And then it's funny presenting that to others. And then they're like, you know what? I never actually thought about that before. So it's cool to see that come to light.
Dr. Leah OH (06:05)
He he.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I love that your team is leaning into that as a strength as they should. Right. Right. So now work life balance. And we know this is one that we hear about everywhere, whether you're watching the news, reading books, having conversations. So we know it's a hot topic. It's a tricky topic, but I'm wondering if you found it especially challenging as a woman and, or as a newer employee in the industry.
Sara Buchel (06:42)
Yeah, I definitely have found that challenging. I mean, especially like I said, trying to find my spot within my career now is where I feel like a lot of people know that they can throw tasks my way. I know how to get them done and get them done well. And then I like to take them on to be a team player to show that I can take on challenges that are maybe even above my weight class. And then, you know, with that, the work -life balance can get lost in the mix. I am really lucky to have, you know, great family around me who
Dr. Leah OH (06:50)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm. Yep.
Sara Buchel (07:13)
make sure that I take that time for myself, take that time to do the things that I enjoy and kind of keeps me on the right path. But like said, definitely just trying to take on when I can at work, but then keeping that balance off during my time off.
Dr. Leah OH (07:20)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, yeah. And I remember too, being a newer professional and I don't know if this happens with you and your work, but a lot of times it was like, oh, Leah doesn't have kids. She can do this. You can come in early or you can stay late or like that. That's fine, Leah. You don't have other things. And I'm like, well, I might not have children, but I do have other things, right? Or, or even if I don't, like even if I am just going to go home and I'm laughing now because in my head I'm like, oh yeah, I was doing my PhD at night. So I.
I have very many other things. I was not just going home and watching TV, but even if I were, it still wouldn't have meant that I should be at every late meeting or every early meeting just because of my, you know, that season in life. So.
Sara Buchel (08:12)
Exactly. Well, then that's what I've been thinking about a little bit too is like, all right, like I'm taking on all these things now. Once I try to transition to that part of my life where I want kids, like, you know, what does that look like? I feel like I've already been kind of think about that now, even though we know it's a couple years out. And it's like, it's just like a little bit of an extra weight on my shoulders. Like I know that eventually I'll figure it out and make it work. But, you know, it's it's definitely something to think about.
Dr. Leah OH (08:21)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm. Yep. Yep.
Mm -hmm.
Oh, a hundred percent. I remember being terrified in those couple of years before, cause it's like, how can I possibly keep up this pace and like have kids? Like, I don't know how these things are going to be compatible. Cause right now they feel like they're competing. Um, but again, like you said, you figure it out, you adjust and the team adjusts. And I think too, a lot of it is you're showing them the work that you do now, the work you're capable of. And they know that you're going to be.
doing that again, once things get kind of settled and you're up and running.
Sara Buchel (09:11)
Yep, exactly.
Dr. Leah OH (09:14)
So Sarah, I'm wondering how do you approach abdicating for yourself or other women in STEM?
Sara Buchel (09:21)
So I feel like I advocate for myself a lot just with keeping an open line of communication with my team members, with my people leaders, like things on those lines. Like I feel like when I'm approaching different tasks or different steps within my career, I've always found just being straightforward of questions I have, challenges I'm facing, how I'm doing to be what helps me keeping, like to keep moving forward.
And I think with that, like everybody knows what my perspective is and what my intentions are as well. Um, and, you know, I kind of feel the same with helping to advocate for other women as well. I got a good network of friends that are in similar fields. And with that, you know, I, I feel really willing to be able to share my experiences and challenges that I've seen with them. And we can kind of find ways to like laugh about the challenges, you know, build each other up, be there for each other. So.
Dr. Leah OH (10:16)
Mm -hmm.
Sara Buchel (10:19)
I think that's where I've really found strength in advocating for each other is really just, like I said, just communicating with each other and knowing that we're all there for each other.
Dr. Leah OH (10:28)
Yeah, I'm writing down some notes because I love so much of your response. So I wanted to raise up the importance of asking questions. And I love that you also brought in when you're asking these questions and you're sharing challenges, I think that's what you said. Then your intentions are clear as well. And I think once people understand where we're coming from and it's this place of trying to make things better or more efficient.
Essentially, we're just coming from a place of trying to help. Everything around us gets easier. Right? Yeah. And then the importance of networking, of course. Right? So of course we have people in the organization that we can chat with, but also outside of the organization. Cause there are certain things you want to get a check and saying, is this happened to you? Is this normal? Is this just me? Like, please let me know that.
Sara Buchel (11:03)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Dr. Leah OH (11:23)
you know, I am experiencing kind of what I should be here. So I think those reality checks are so helpful.
Sara Buchel (11:31)
Yeah, it's super nice having a couple of my friends that, like I said, we went, we got our chemical engineering degrees and then we went our separate ways to different companies. And it's funny to see the overlap of those challenges that we're seeing within, because we're both in large companies as well, where there's so many people, it can be hard to find the right people to reach out to. And then just the different approaches of how those companies solve challenges. And so it's nice to have that different perspective, but at the same time, see where they match up. And.
Dr. Leah OH (11:36)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Yep.
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Sara Buchel (12:00)
Like I said, see that we're seeing the same things.
Dr. Leah OH (12:02)
Yes, exactly. And so this one kind of piggybacks off of this idea of networking, but I'm wondering what advice do you have for other women who are aspiring to leadership roles in STEM?
Sara Buchel (12:17)
I think my advice to those who are aspiring for leadership roles is to of course go for it. Like it's an awesome experience. It's amazing because you get to know so many different people through that role. But also like just remember to always fill your cup. Surround yourself with people who can help you fill your cup and then take the time that you need to take care of yourself because that's when you're going to feel that, feel that you need to keep moving forward and go after your dream.
Dr. Leah OH (12:22)
Mm -hmm.
Yes. Yeah. And I love that because I think a lot of people, and I think this is changing generationally, but I think that some folks feel like they need to be invited to apply for something or they need, you know, that nod or that tap on the shoulder saying, Hey, why don't you do this? And while that's certainly nice. And again, that can reduce some of that anxiety or uncertainty of putting our name in there. We don't need permission. If it's something that we want to do and we are interested in.
then you put your name in and then people will know that you are interested in this, even if you don't get it.
Sara Buchel (13:21)
Yep, exactly. I completely agree.
Dr. Leah OH (13:23)
Mm hmm. So, Sarah, I'm wondering, this next question is a two parter. So the first part is wondering how, in your opinion, maybe in your experience, and this might be, you know, things you experienced before college or what you've seen at Michigan State, or maybe what your employer's doing, but how do we attract and retain more women in STEM fields? And then also kind of with that, and you've kind of talked about this, what is it that attracted you to the STEM field?
Sara Buchel (13:53)
Yeah, so I think to attract more women to this time field, I think more open sharing of not even just like what your career looks like, but maybe your life would be helpful. You know, being like, all right, this is how I'm able to move forward in my career, but this is how I'm also able to balance my family life along with that and how different people end up, you know, going about that even like even with having kids like.
Dr. Leah OH (14:21)
Mm -hmm.
Sara Buchel (14:21)
you know, I'm able to take them to daycare this May days a week or have family watch them this May days a week. Even just like those kinds of details can kind of get people thinking about what works and what's worked in the past. And then I also think for the second part of that question, I think also of just for what attracted me to STEM field is really, like I said, just having the understanding of that I can be helping people in the planet. It's not necessarily about.
Dr. Leah OH (14:30)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Sara Buchel (14:50)
always helping to improve profit in a company as well. So I really like that piece of it. And I think, you know, being able to have that understanding of what options are out there within the STEM field is something that can help people understand like this matches up with my interests.
Dr. Leah OH (14:54)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for that. I love that idea of bringing in the lifestyle of what it might look like, because you're right. If we do see something, it's a day in the life of a chemical engineer and it's the, you know, eight to five telling us what that looks like. You know, what the meetings are, what all of the tasks, but we don't talk about what that means for your life. And I think that's so helpful. And it just reminded me we were having.
a dinner with a bunch of friends and one of them is a lawyer. And he was talking about how like I could take this job, but it's always going to be 80 hours a week. And I looked at my daughter. I was like, please don't become a lawyer. Like, I don't want this for you. I feel really like, and people started laughing and I'm like, I'm not trying to, to, to make light of law or to, you know, I study organizations. I love people's work. I respect people's work, but.
Sara Buchel (15:51)
Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (16:06)
Having a life outside of 80 hours of work is near impossible. And who knows if she will want a family, but it just eliminates even the ability, like travel would be hard, right? Engaging in hobbies that you have would be challenging with that schedule. So I think you're in considering what does that look like in terms of a lifestyle and other things that I want to do and pursue and I'm passionate about.
Sara Buchel (16:19)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Leah OH (16:35)
I think that's something I would love to see people talking about more when they're describing different career paths.
Sara Buchel (16:42)
Yeah, definitely.
Dr. Leah OH (16:44)
Yeah, yeah, thanks for for raising that up. So my next question, you kind of touched on this, but I want you I would love it if you could speak on the importance of mentorship and building a strong network, especially for women in STEM.
Sara Buchel (17:00)
Yeah, definitely the mentorship is a huge piece. Like I said, I think, you know, one of my strongest networks right now are the group people that are kind of in my same age range and in the same position, kind of going through the same challenges. But then also, I think back to a couple people that I've gotten to know really well during different roles that I've had with my career so far. And they've just been amazing to be able to share the challenges that they have gone through to be able to give advice and
how it is that I should move forward with my career. You know, it's people that I almost like look to now as they almost feel like family a little bit just with that balance and to know that somebody's always has your back no matter what decision you make as your next step is huge to just know you got that wall of people behind you.
Dr. Leah OH (17:37)
Mm -hmm. Yep.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, exactly. And I like the importance because you're kind of a lot of times in organizations, especially large organizations, you meet other newbies because you're in orientations together and going through all of these sessions. And then a lot of times we don't meet a lot of people, a lot of new people outside of those we work with on a day in and day out basis. So the importance of having those ties.
I mean, I still think some of my strongest relationships at my university are with the people who started the same year I did. So we've kind of walked the same step, but from different parts of campus and different roles. But it's been nice to say, oh, what have you found over here in chemistry? Or what did you see in the music department? Or what did this look like for you in English, right? And all of these different ties that you can draw from. And.
Sometimes too, having someone who's not in your team meetings can be helpful to say, wow, do your team meetings go like this? Like, would this fly over there? So yeah. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Sara Buchel (18:47)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it's definitely like those relationships where you're able to break down the barriers and you're very open with each other. You're able to be honest with the things that are maybe more tough to talk about. That's when you know you got the right system.
Dr. Leah OH (19:01)
Yes. Yes, exactly. So Sarah, I have two final questions for you, and this is the way we end all episodes of the Communicative Leader. So I like to leave listeners, whether it's a pragmatic leadership or communication tip, it can be advice, it can be a challenge. So the first part is, what do you want to leave our titled, our formal leaders, our managers, directors, what do you want to leave them with?
Sara Buchel (19:31)
I think, you know, especially for those who are building a team and, you know, being somebody who's a team member that is a newer employee in my group in comparison to people who have been within the company for years is don't forget to build a team not only based off of expertise, but also the intangibles. I had a mentor once and actually a family friend who told me that sometimes some of the best engineers aren't necessarily the ones that have all the answers.
but know who to ask and how to get the right answers. And so I feel like that played a lot on some of the things that have been my strengths and that's where I've really been able to pull people together.
Dr. Leah OH (20:12)
Mm hmm. I'm writing that down. I love that. Because you're right, it's this power of those relationships that you have. Excellent. Because then it's not just, I'm still thinking, it's not just the knowledge I have in my mind that I've cultivated, but that I can draw from from five or 10 other engineers that I know. Yeah. And then the second part to that question, so we just talked about our titled leaders.
Sara Buchel (20:30)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (20:37)
And now I'm wondering what is the advice, the challenge, or tips that you want to leave all employees? So across ranks, across industries, what is it that we leave them with?
Sara Buchel (20:48)
I think it's surrounding yourself with a wide range of people with different goals. You know, surround yourself with people who their goal is to work up the ladder and other people that their goal is to become a subject matter expert in the thing that they found that they love. And then other people that are actually just trying to work towards finding that better work -life balance because bringing in all those different perspectives is what's going to build a team together that's going to be the most effective.
Dr. Leah OH (21:02)
Mm -hmm.
Yes, I love that. So we have a really strong team. And also if these are, you know, different kind of mentors and quotes that I have around you, right? When you need to lean more into the balance part of your work life, or when you really are like, I am ready for the next step. Or when you're thinking, I'm really happy here, but I want to be the best, whatever it is I can be. You have people around you who are modeling it in a way that is really powerful.
Sara Buchel (21:46)
Yeah, definitely agreed.
Dr. Leah OH (21:48)
Excellent. Oh, Sarah, thank you so much for joining us today, for sharing your expertise, for doing the amazing work that you do. I know that this is really going to help listeners. And again, thank you for being here with us.
Sara Buchel (22:01)
Thank you so much for having me.
