The Communicative Leader
On The Communicative Leader, we're making your work life what you want it to be. Do you need years of training or special equipment? Not at all my friends. Simple, yet thoughtful changes in your communication can make great strides in displaying your leadership ability. And why the heck should you care about leadership communication? Well, communication is the yardstick others use to determine whether or not they see you as a leader. Ahhh don't be scared, I got you. We will walk through common organizational obstacles and chat about small, but meaningful communication-rooted changes you can integrate immediately. No more waiting for the workplace to become what you hope it will. Nope. You, my friends, will be empowered and equipped to make those changes. Let's have some fun! Can't get enough?
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The Communicative Leader
Transformative Leadership in DEI: Integrating Storytelling, Data, and Gentle Curiosity for Inclusive Excellence - A Conversation with Bernadette Smith
Today we welcome Bernadette Smith, a thought leader in diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI).
We discuss the importance of DEI for everyone and the need to engage with influencers and change makers to drive positive change. Bernadette emphasizes the significance of recognizing privilege, embracing mistakes, and creating psychological safety in the workplace. She also explores the role of storytelling in promoting understanding and empathy, as well as the power of humility in leadership communication.
Some additional takeaways:
- DEI is important for everyone and should be approached holistically across all functions of an organization.
- Humility is essential in leadership communication, and leaders should be willing to admit what they don't know.
- Leaders should engage with influencers and change makers to drive positive change and celebrate what's going right in the world.
- Creating psychological safety and embracing mistakes are crucial for fostering inclusion and promoting growth.
Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose.
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Today, bernadette Smith, founder of Quality Institute. She joins us on the Communicative Leader. She shares her experience as a leader in the DEI space and discusses the importance of bringing everyone into the conversation. She also highlights the role of humility in leadership and the power of storytelling. Let's dive in telling.
Dr. Leah OH:Let's dive in. Hello and welcome to the communicative leader hosted by me, Dr Leah Omilion- Hodges. My friends call me Dr OH. I'm a professor of communication and a leadership communication expert. I'm the communicative leader. We're working to make your work life what you want it to be Bernadette.
Dr. Leah OH:thank you so much for joining us on the Communicative Leader. I'm really excited to learn from you today. Before we dive in and have this really important conversation, can you give us a little bit of a background and your experience within Leadership Arena or DEI?
Bernadette Smith:Yeah, I have my own business called Equality Institute and I've been a business owner for about 20 years or so now, and so you know that has made me a leader, and so you know, with people on my team, external vendors and suppliers, leading my clients, and so there've just been, I've worn a lot of leadership hats, also in some volunteer capacities as well, and so, yeah, I mean, to me it's just sort of who I am and I really love what I get to do and I'm right now I'm a thought leader.
Bernadette Smith:You know I write and I speak and and my focus is about really bringing everyone into the DEI conversation and helping folks realize that DEI means everyone Right and um, and that we really need to think about DEI holistically across all functions of an organization. So I have a. I have a lot of passion around these topics.
Dr. Leah OH:And that is essential, right More now than ever. And that leads us to this next question. So I'm wondering if you can talk to us about how you identify with or engage with influencers and change makers. I mean, certainly you are one, but in this DEI space to help to drive that positive change.
Bernadette Smith:Well, one thing that you know positive change is my brand. That is absolutely what I'm completely passionate about, and so I write a newsletter called Five Things bringing good vibes to DEI, and every week I search for stories of what's going right in the world, stories that we can be inspired by and learn from, because there is so much negative data out there and, yes, it's important to acknowledge the oppression and the work that's yet to be done, but also we got to celebrate what's going right and so the positive change. So I write this newsletter and then I have my own podcast on Monday in which I talk with someone else about those five stories and those are other change makers, right? I invite other change makers, other influencers, on my show and you know, it's a great way to celebrate what's going right in the world and how we can do more of this positive change.
Dr. Leah OH:Exactly and with the work that you're doing, I imagine all of that positive is the fuel you need when you're seeing continued oppression and inequalities. It's recognizing okay, we still have a ways to go.
Bernadette Smith:We probably always will honestly be working on these things, but recognizing that good is what helps you to keep going. But also A I really try to stay mindful of my privilege at all times, because I have a lot of it and so I don't experience some of the oppression that these positive changes directly impact. A lot of them don't directly impact me, and so I just always want to make sure that I'm mindful of my privilege, that I'm not trying to be too Pollyanna about this stuff, that I'm not trying to be like good vibes only, you know. So I really want to make sure that it's important to talk about all of that stuff too. I'll tell you that about a year I guess 14 months ago now I thought you know, I have these good stories to share and they're little, bite-sized stories.
Bernadette Smith:They're perfect for TikTok. Let me make these little videos on TikTok. That sounds like a good idea. Well, that was not a very good idea. It basically got canceled on TikTok pretty quickly. I had a 48 hour TikTok experiment because I think that there's the impression that I was trying to be good vibes only, and so I think it's just so. That was a lesson learned for me, right, and so that's why I'm really trying to find that balance.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, and thank you for sharing that, and I think that's such a huge aspect of leadership that we do not talk about because it's not always comfortable and that's not, as a society, typically what we're used to hearing with leadership, but it happens to all of us in different ways and if we don't talk about it for others who are struggling, they don't recognize. Oh, this is just kind of part of it. It might look different for everyone else, but it's part of the journey, so thank you for sharing that.
Bernadette Smith:Yeah, thank you. You know I will be honest, I have come to really enjoy talking about my mistakes. To really enjoy talking about my mistakes. Um, I and I do it in my keynotes, I do it in my workshops, I do it on podcasts, because I think it's really important to to create psychological safety. You know, if the people on my team don't know about the mistakes that I make, then they might feel like they have to get it perfect the first time, right, and then overthink things, and so I think that it's really important to talk about the mistakes we make. People on their DEI journey, wherever they are too self-conscious about that, but then they have these fears about making mistakes, then they're probably not going to do anything, they're probably not going to say anything and they're going to stay in the status quo. So I love talking about my mistakes.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, that is awesome. I love that and I applaud you and I hope you keep doing that. Thank you. I mean, I don't want you. I I hope you keep doing that.
Dr. Leah OH:Thank you I mean I don't want you. I mean the way that came out sounds like keep failing, bernadette, and share that. But I mean I just think again, if we normalize this, if we take away some of that stigma because, like you said, we don't want team members to think that they can't make a mistake or we don't want them to feel like they have to cover it up yeah, exactly, we don't want to orchestrate this culture.
Dr. Leah OH:That isn't possible. So that's a really nice segue. I love a good messy first draft. Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Bernadette Smith:Yeah, sorry, I was just going to say I love a good messy first draft. Yeah exactly you know and I think that's where we got to start, and they come a lot faster.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, a hundred percent. So, with kind of with that in mind, kind of following up with this idea of maybe failure or taking a step back the first draft and then figuring out how we do this better or how we do this differently, how do you suggest navigating challenges or resistance when navigating, or advocating rather for DEI initiatives and organizations?
Bernadette Smith:I have a new workshop about this and because because it's a hot topic, right, and I think what's really important to for folks to move from just having good intentions to actually being DEI influencers and change makers Um, I think that they really need to have kind of their talking points, you know, and I think that that includes, and must really include, a combination of storytelling and data, because some people are moved by stories and other people are moved by data, right, and so I think, when we kind of have our what are our core four messages, talking points that are going to help us make the case, the story should ideally be personal. You know something that's meaningful, something that is universal. If there's something you know, so we give some story prompts and so folks can figure out what is that story, and then lots of pieces of data to choose from, and I think that those two things are important. And also, you know, listen, we're not going to get everyone on board, and that's okay.
Bernadette Smith:And you know, if we're encountering resistors, the first thing we should do is say, hey, we're not trying to change your beliefs, we're just trying to align what we're doing with our core values. Always bring it back to the company's or the organization's core values and chances are there's something in there and the guiding principles or the values or the mission or something that can be related back to diversity, equity and inclusion, somehow. Right, because core values ultimately have something to do with people, right, and the culture they're trying to create, whether or not they're lived. That's kind of a different story, but ideally, you know they're talked about. Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH:and thank you for I was thinking about credibility when you're talking about bringing in the storytelling and the data and recognizing that in that way we're connecting across the board. So if someone wanted to just dismiss this as too warm and fuzzy, they couldn't because there is data to support that. And the other way, if someone's really connecting with data but they don't really understand that lived experience for others or what that might mean or what that might look for, we're able to bring those together to create a full picture for someone.
Speaker 3:that's exactly right, and we're not going to get everyone we're not, and so I think it's important to acknowledge that as well. Yeah, I mean I, yeah, it's not easy. This work is. No one ever said this is easy.
Dr. Leah OH:Exactly, exactly. And to follow up on that other question, the previous one, so I'm a leadership communication scholar. Communication makes me really excited and when I was preparing to chat with you, I but are there other communication strategies that are titled leaders can use to, you know, foster inclusion and to just have a better workplace culture that is inclusive?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I think a key term here, a key strategy, is humility. Here a key strategy is humility, and I kind of hinted at that a bit when I was talking about sharing mistakes, talking about kind of creating a learning culture. But you know, that really comes down to humility, and I think great leaders also should be willing to and this again humility, admit what you don't know, because we're not going to have all the answers, and that again can go towards creating a psychologically safe team, and so humility is key.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, I really love that. I think in all of the episodes that I've done. There are a lot of things I hear pretty often and that's great because they're best practices, but I do not hear enough about humility. Thank you for raising that one up and giving us that to think about. Remembering that really is part of being a strong communicator and really embodying leadership. Strong communicator and really embodying leadership.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because ultimately we're going to make mistakes If we can't see all the perspectives, because we can't possibly see all the perspectives, we don't have certain lived experiences. You know that when we have humility, it means that we actually are willing to diversify our teams, because we know that those diverse identities will help us fill in the gaps in our points of view.
Dr. Leah OH:Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's how we get to better outcomes. But we can't think that far ahead unless we first have humility.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, I like that as a stepping stone and a continued you know, a commitment to humility as we continue to grow. So, bernadette, you've already touched on storytelling when you're talking about navigating resistance, but I'm wondering if you can give us a little bit more about what you've seen or what you believe in terms of the role storytelling plays in promoting understanding or empathy among those trying to champion diversity, equity and inclusion.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that one of the books that I really like is called Inclusion Nudges, and the premise of that book is that we need to use neuroscience to essentially manipulate change so in order for it to be the most effective, and so it kind of talks about different ways, sort of the different, four different categories, I think, in which people are willing to change, and one of those categories is feeling the need.
Speaker 3:They're not going to change unless they feel the need to change, unless they see, potentially how it personally affects them. Right, and so feeling the need, it could be one of the ways we can trigger, that is with storytelling. Feeling the need could be empathy, um, and so we can create change that way through telling stories, or create behavior change specifically through telling stories. Because when we tell stories whether they're our own stories, whether they're the stories of clients in the form of case studies, whether they're stories about someone in our family, stories about going back to humility, what it was like when we first started at the company, a time in which our life was out of balance and we didn't quite have it all together, a mistake that we made, or maybe a time in which we felt like an outsider you know these are story prompts that I think that leaders can use to talk about.
Dr. Leah OH:Aren't huge, right? You don't need to do spend years of work to think about how to thoughtfully integrate these prompts, these story prompts right, I mean, you need to use them. You need to go in ready to have the conversation and, like I said, with some humility. But what I love about this work and that response in particular, is because I think so many people think this is so daunting. They can never begin this journey, they can never start these conversations. We recognize that there are. There's an on-ramp that is pretty accessible.
Speaker 3:You know, and I think that there's a little script. You know, if I were to make a little script, it would go something like I don't know everything. So I'm here to tell you that I'm continuing to learn and I want to learn from you, and I've made mistakes in my past and I haven't always had it together, but I have a really clear vision and I need your help. Like you know, I just riffed that, but essentially, you know, it can go like that.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah, because you like, when I was listening, I hear connection, I hear trust, I hear safe space, I hear empowerment, right, just in those couple sentences, that is what you've already teed up for me as a team member. Cool, yeah, excellent. And so my next question yeah, exactly, Exactly, and I think for a lot of people it feels like that on the outside before they start, before they take those first steps. And my next question this is one that might be another nice on-ramp kind of element if you haven't been talking about DEI or doing what you think you should or could be doing is thinking about safe spaces. And I was thinking about you know what would you coach if you have a titled leader coming up to you and saying the organization isn't where I think it should be? We hear things that I don't think are quite appropriate or I'm not comfortable with, or they're not always inclusive with their language that leaders can utilize to keep the safe space for employees, or helping employees to speak up if they witness or hear exclusive language being used.
Speaker 3:Well, I think it's really important for leaders to be A. Let's just get to the policy, so let's talk first about policy and make sure that the anti-discrimination policy includes microaggressions in the definition of harassment right, so having a and and hate speech right. So we want to make sure that the the bar is actually not all that low um is acceptable, and so that's the first thing.
Speaker 3:But then, when it comes to actually leadership and interpersonal dialogue about this, I think it's important to be very clear on what's acceptable and that psychological safety is incredibly important and that there will be no retribution if someone files a complaint someone files a complaint. So I think that that's really important as well, because I think a lot of people are afraid of retribution and retaliation.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, you're right. So it's not just the psychological safety, it's also safety within their livelihoods. That's right. Yeah, ability to thrive in the organization, exactly. So I'm wondering now. So this next question kind of makes extends the previous question in a very real way for us. So I'm wondering if you have a scenario where you intervene to address exclusive language in a professional setting, or maybe you have an experience that you learned from someone through all of the work that you're doing, just somewhere where we've kind of seen you've seen this happen. What did it look like and what were the outcomes?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean. So it, this is a. We see this all the time, you know, um using the wrong pronouns. We have someone on our team who uses they, them pronouns, and sometimes they're misgendered. And actually, uh, there have been a couple of occasions in which my company's business manager has misgendered them on a sales call with a client. So before we even sold this workshop, while we're talking about it and talking about the facilitator, there have been a couple of times in which my business manager has used the wrong pronouns. And so, you know, I just say something as simple as um, irma actually uses they, them pronouns, or, and sometimes I just I don't even say that sometimes, you know, I just go back to they, right, and so I sort of am very clear, like, yeah, they actually, um are really great at telling their own story, or whatever I happen to want to add and so and, and, and.
Speaker 3:they get it right and so it all. It's fine, but it I think that the key thing here is that it doesn't have to be a huge deal, right. We don't need to turn it into this big dramatic over-correction, over-apology. Everyone is awkward. No, it doesn't have to be that way. It can be really simple, it can be quick and folks, unless they're real DEI resistors, they get it and they appreciate that it's not a big deal, right, and then I think that that gives them a little bit more psychological safety.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, yes, thank you for taking the shame out of it, because that's what I think many people are fearful of or many people have seen others do, and I like how you talk about so you can model it just by saying they will do this. And I like how you talk about so you can model it just by saying they will do this or this is what they're really, you know, successful at. Or you can be explicit if that, if that, you know, if there's space for that as well, but doing it without the intention of shaming and rather just would you say, correcting or teaching or modeling.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say, you know, I would say like gently correcting. I think that you know, the approach I try to take in or I talk about in my work is really gentle curiosity, you know, and kind of approaching with that, and so I think this is kind of a form of gentle correcting.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, I like that gentle curiosity, so I'm going to ask you for another example I'm thinking about. I know that you and your organization, you do solutions-oriented work and I love that. So I'm wondering if you can share a specific story with us when you've taken your solutions-oriented approach and it really had a positive outcome and impact in promoting DEI.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, you know, I think one of the a simple example is uh, you know we're working with. It is actually a workshop. You know we do. We do a lot of workshops, um, and then we collect feedback afterwards and I just you know the the types of feedback we hear from our clients about how people have started to change and add pronouns in their email signatures in the middle of the workshop.
Speaker 3:And it's already working and you know the traction is already coming, like that type of stuff happens, right, and so seeing it like in real time and having our clients see it in real time is is very cool, um, you know, and so that's sort of a simple example. Um, but I gave a keynote last week and I had the within a corporation and I had time afterwards in a couple of different meetings to really sit and talk to the employees and there were leaders in the room as well, so kind of like listening sessions, like in listening sessions, and it was really amazing to me to see people already understanding the concept of psychological safety and talking about it and feeling giving examples of times they felt unpsychologically safe, like immediately in the in the immediate aftermath of my session, people had the language and the tools to talk about how they feel, and they got to do it in front of leaders and that was a really cool thing to see.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah, and you're right, that immediate positive change, I think a lot of times until, like you said, we don't have the language. So I think it's language. I think it's permission too. So by having the organization bring you in, do a keynote, giving that language, I think, whether it's explicit or implicit permission, then feeling like, okay, now I have the lens to understand this, I have the vocabulary to articulate it and to have people excited about that as an organizational scholar, that really warms my heart.
Speaker 3:Cool, thank you, yeah, I mean it was. It was a beautiful thing for me to see because, uh, to be honest, this was a corporation in a conservative industry and a conservative part of the U? S and the leaders were there in that room and they were like I hear you and we are going to do better, and it was just. I mean it was just like I actually wrote about it in my five things newsletter this past weekend because he said when people are asking me if we're retreating on DEI, I said no, we are only moving forward, we are doubling down. And that was his quote. I, like you know what this is, a straight white dude in the US South and you know we're we're going to be okay.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, yeah, I have goosebumps when you were saying that. So you're like, oh, there's going to be, there's going to be change. You're right, it's very optimistic, very hopeful that's my brand Excellent. So, bernadette, I have two final questions for you, and these go hand in hand of the communicative leader with advice or challenges or tips for first our titled leaders and then our employees, across all ranks, across industries, and it can be leadership, leadership, communication, just something that you want to leave them with. So we'll start with our titled leaders. So what do you have for those folks out there?
Speaker 3:Think about some story prompts you know I mentioned a few in this episode, but think about little story prompts that you can use to talk to people on your team. So a mistake that you've made in the past, a time that you felt like your life was out of balance, a time that you felt like an outsider come up with a quick story that shows that you have humility and don't be afraid to talk about that story, especially when people seem to be really struggling. Maybe you have more than one story. You probably do.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah, excellent. It's simple but powerful, right, and I love those. And then for our friends out there. So this next bit of advice, or challenge, or tip you know all employees, all ranks, across all industries. What do you want to leave them with?
Speaker 3:I want you to think about the people on your team with some gentle curiosity. You know, you might think that some of these folks are really annoying, but what if you were just a little bit more curious and perhaps a little bit less judgmental? Less judgmental, what would that look like? And yeah, so think about that, you know, and maybe take a little bit of time to get to know people a little bit better, with that sense of gentle curiosity.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, right, because that is a workplace I want to be a part of. Exactly Well, bernadette, thank you for joining us today. On the Communicative Leader, I have learned a lot. I've had a lot of fun chatting with you and learning from you, and I know our listeners will as well.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much, leah. It's been really great. You're a great interviewer, you had fantastic questions and I really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you.
Bernadette Smith:All right, my friends. That wraps up our conversation today. Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose. I'm looking forward to chatting with you again soon on the Communicative Leader.
