The Communicative Leader

You DON'T Have to Do It All on Your Own: Debunking the Myth of the Solo Leader

Dr. Leah OH Season 5 Episode 6

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Unlock the secrets to successful leadership by rejecting the myth of the solo leader. Today, we explore how the notion of "doing it all" is not just outdated but potentially detrimental. Witness the enlightening journeys of leaders like Jack Welch and Indra Nooyi, whose stories reveal that embracing teamwork leads to transformative success. Contrast this with cautionary tales like Elizabeth Holmes, whose reluctance to collaborate spelled failure. Through my own experiences as a new assistant professor, you'll see how the absence of a support network can lead to overwhelm and inefficiency, reinforcing the critical value of teamwork.

As we shift focus to the undeniable impact of collaborative leadership, discover how leaders who prioritize empowerment can revolutionize workplace culture and outcomes. Dive into research-backed insights that demonstrate how engaged teams outperform competitors and enjoy reduced turnover. Through practical examples like those of John and Sarah, learn why clear communication, effective delegation, and acknowledging team efforts are vital for fostering a motivated and productive environment. With this episode, equip yourself with actionable strategies to harness the power of collaboration and delegation, ensuring not only your success but also that of your team.

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Dr. Leah OH:

Welcome to the Communicative Leader. I'm Dr Leah Om Hodges, also known as Dr L. Today, we're talking about a common myth that many leaders struggle with the idea that they have to do it all on their own. In today's episode, we will unpack and, more importantly, debunk the myth of the solo leader. We're gonna look at the power of collaboration and delegation. We're gonna end by chatting about the importance of having a strong support network. Let's have some fun. Hello and welcome to the Communicative Leader hosted by me, D Leah O'Millian Hodges. My friends call me Dr O. I'm a professor of communication and a leadership communication expert.

Dr. Leah OH:

On the Communicative Leader, we're working to make your work life what you want it to be. So let's talk about the myth of the solo leader. Many of our titled leaders truly believe that they're the only ones who can get the job done. They think they're the only ones who understand what needs to be done and that no one else can possibly help them. You're expected to be a superhero with the ability to tackle any challenge that comes your way, with or without help or support from others. This is a myth, my friends, and this myth is one that can be toxic. It leads to burnout, to exhaustion and a sense of isolation. What else Mistakes? When we are on overload all of the time, we tend to make mistakes, and pretty silly ones. And what happens right when we have mistakes, especially when they're fairly frequently? What does that do to our credibility? Well, steadily chips away at it. In reality, leaders who try to do everything on their own often end up again burning out, making silly errors and struggling to achieve their goals.

Dr. Leah OH:

In fact, research has shown that leaders who prioritize self-reliance and independence are more likely to experience burnout and turnover than our title leaders who prioritize and embrace collaboration and teamwork. And, my friends, if you are listening and you're nodding along, you're not alone. We all do this. We are all guilty of this from time to time, regardless of our title or our position. The extra challenge for our friends in title leadership positions, though, is you are under a lot of scrutiny, you're on the hook for things when it doesn't turn out as planned, and you're typically seen as an extension of the organization itself. So the pressure can really mount if you're not intentionally integrating strategies for self-care, collaboration and support. So let's check out some statistics. A study by Gallup found that 50% of employees in leadership positions reported feeling burned out at work, with 60% of the sample feeling overwhelmed by their workload. The Harvard Business Review did a study and they found that leaders who prioritize self-reliance are 25% more likely to experience burnout than those who embrace collaboration. Finally, a study by McKinsey found that companies with high levels of collaboration and teamwork are 20% more likely to achieve their goals than those that have lower levels of collaboration.

Dr. Leah OH:

We've also seen this play out in some of the most notable contemporary business leaders. So let's look at Jack Welsh. He was with GE. He is often lauded for his leadership at General Electric, but he faced criticism for his heavy-handed approach in his early years. His belief that he had to personally oversee many aspects of the business led to an unsustainable pace and an overstretched leadership team. But over time, welsh learned to delegate more effectively. He recognized the value in empowering his executives and my friends. This turned to delegating and empowering, and this is why Welsh is so widely seen as one of the greats.

Dr. Leah OH:

Now, another resoundingly positive example of a leader who made the shift from the great leader myth is Indra Nooyi, who was formerly the CEO at PepsiCo. Well, nooyi is celebrated for transforming Pepsi. She initially struggled to balance her visionary ideas with the operational realities of the company. She realized that by trying to control too many details, she was limiting her own effectiveness as a leader. Eventually, she focused on empowering her team to take ownership of these various initiatives, and that led to much more sustainable growth. And while these are positive examples that demonstrate the strength of self-reflection and a shift towards collaboration, we can also look at examples that were never able to right the ship to get on a sounder, more sustainable path. On the complete other end of things, elizabeth Holmes Holmes initially took on too many roles within her company, believing she could single-handedly revolutionize healthcare with her technology. Her reluctance to seek outside expertise or build a strong, diverse leadership team and, of course, among other very questionable and unethical practices, has ultimately contributed to the company's dramatic failure and legal troubles.

Dr. Leah OH:

And, my friends, I've seen this myth play out firsthand in my own career. When I became a brand new tenure track assistant professor many years ago, I said yes to everything and I tried to do everything on my own. I felt like I needed to prove myself, and often this meant that I was doing way too much, taking on much more in service and teaching committee work than my fair share and feeling like I had to do it all on my own. But it became clear very, very quick like first semester, a month in two months in that this approach was unsustainable and, perhaps more importantly, it was ridiculously ineffective. This mismanaged approach to work was not I repeat, was not getting me to where I wanted to be. I was working long hours, I was making mistakes, I was isolated, I was overwhelmed and I wasn't even successful. So you add that all up and you realize something is really out of balance here. So what else? In this time, this approach was damaging to my nearest and dearest relationships because I was continually prioritizing work over everything else, including family and friends. I also realized that always saying yes, especially when I was new, meant that was likely the lens I would be seen in indefinitely. And don't get me wrong, I am all for teamwork, working collaboratively, pulling my weight, but that is qualitatively different than being the person who always raises her hand for every need and always offers to shoulder the majority of the weight of the role.

Dr. Leah OH:

There was this one day I remember I was walking out of my building, I was walking to the parking lot. It was a super long day and even longer few months, and I realized that everyone important in my life was angry at me. Maybe angry is not the word, but maybe, like peeved, they were annoyed. I was walking out and I was thinking about how obnoxious it was that my partner was mad at me, or my sister was frustrated, or my best friend or my mom, and then it finally dawned on me I was the only common denominator here. What I was doing at work, trying to be all things to everyone, left me incapable of showing up for those who mattered most. And that wasn't it. If we're being honest, I wasn't showing up as my best self for my students or my colleagues, because I was stretched too thin. It wasn't until I learned to build a strong support network, volunteer my time strategically and delegate.

Dr. Leah OH:

When I started to see things actually shift and actually change for the better, my sister gave me a book about setting better boundaries. I took time to write out goals, and this is something I still do. My friends, at the beginning of every semester, I have semester goals and academic school year goals, and when I had these goals set and when I had, you know, thoughtful, healthy boundaries, these are the plans that made it possible for me to achieve my goals. That made it possible for me to achieve my goals. What else? As a result, I became more productive, I was more motivated, I was more engaged. What else? I was so much happier, I got sleep. People weren't mad at me all the time because I was able to show up for them.

Dr. Leah OH:

So the moral of the story here, my friends, is there are true consequences to that myth of the solo leader. When leaders, or just employees, when anyone tries to do everything on their own, these consequences can be severe. And again, burnout is just one example, but it's not the only one. So if you are a titled leader and you tend to prioritize doing it on your own or that self-reliance over a more collaborative approach, again you might miss opportunities by not seeking input from others. Again, if we are not integrating innovation or new perspectives that could lead to better outcomes, that's not going to reflect well on us.

Dr. Leah OH:

We can also struggle with accountability. When leaders do everything on their own, they might struggle to actually get it done. And then to raise your hand and say, yes, that was my mistake, or my failure, my shortcoming, because again you're stretched too thin. Coming Because again you're stretched too thin. So it is time let's kick this myth to the curb. We have got to stop believing in the myth of the solo leader. Instead, I want you to focus on building strong networks, engineering your team and your workplace for employee empowerment and leaning into delegation, and we're going to talk about how to do all of this in these next few segments. But when we do this, we can achieve our goals without the burnout and we can become even better leaders and teammates and partners in the process.

Dr. Leah OH:

It's not just about getting things done quickly or efficiently. It's about building trust and relationships with those we work with. When we involve others in decision-making, we build trust and foster a sense of ownership across our team. Guess what else? My friends and I really love this one when you lean into collaboration and cultivating an environment of empowerment. This speaks directly to Gen Z's leadership preferences. We know that Gen Z is starting to storm into industry, embracing full-time work, coming of age, and with Gen Z, we need to be mindful that they really prefer and embrace leaders who embody self-awareness right, not burning yourself out, burning the candle at both ends and not getting anything done. They also embrace leaders who can engage in self-management, social awareness, management, social awareness and the ability to manage relationships. It is time we improve at reading the room and show our youngest of employees that we're aware of their preferences. But, more importantly, we recognize the importance of showing up as a title leader, of role modeling and engaging in the workplace that way.

Dr. Leah OH:

So how can leaders break free from this myth and start embracing their team members and not just working with them, but really raising them up and relying on them in important ways? One of the easiest ways to do this is to delegate effectively. You know, this isn't just tossing a assignment at someone or forwarding an email with no explanation. This means giving clear instructions, providing resources and support and then trusting and this can be the hardest one, my friends trusting your team member to take ownership of the task, of the task. It's also not just about delegating. It's about empowering team members, your colleagues, to make decisions, to take calculated risks. When leaders give their team members autonomy, we are also building competence and motivation.

Dr. Leah OH:

What else Research shows us over and over and over? We're going to look at some of this in a minute, and this makes me really excited. But the research supports that our leaders who are prioritizing collaboration and empowerment. You have so many positive work outcomes, my friends. We're going to touch on just a few of these key statistics. So employee engagement Gallup tells us that companies with highly engaged teams outperform their competitors by 147% in earnings per share. Right, 147% in earnings per share. I mean, that is just off the charts. You can't even make sense of that number.

Dr. Leah OH:

So empowering leaders who encourage collaboration it fosters high levels of engagement because people feel seen, they are excited, they tend to be more motivated in their work because they know that you trust them and they have the confidence to be innovative. Not just engagement, but productivity also. Source we see that a study from Harvard Business Review that teams that have collaborative working environments are five times more likely to be high performing. So we have this empowered team. They're more likely to be engaged, they're more likely to be innovative and productive as well. So not only do we have this employee engagement, not only do we have five times higher productivity which these numbers just insane but I want to talk to you about retention as well. So research by Deloitte it shows us that organizations with high levels of employee engagement see 50% lower turnover rates. What does this mean, my friends? When leaders empower their teams, employees feel more valued and they're less likely to leave the organization.

Dr. Leah OH:

Retention is really expensive. It is financially expensive to organizations, is really expensive. It is financially expensive to organizations. It takes up so much time in terms of new onboarding and getting new employees up to speed. We know that employees leave with a whole wealth of organizational knowledge. Retaining employees, especially retaining good employees that is gold. These statistics suggest a strong correlation between leadership styles that emphasize collaboration and empowerment and so many positive outcomes, including satisfaction, productivity and overall organizational performance. So we know that the ability to delegate well and collaborate with your team leads to a wealth of important work outcomes.

Dr. Leah OH:

So what are those best practices? So how do I delegate well and how do I collaborate Well? That's what we're going to look at when we delegate effectively. Again, this is a crucial skill for leaders, for managers, because it allows you to optimize your time while also developing your team and achieving organizational goals more effectively. Here are some best practices. So one I want you to think about clear objectives. Define that task. Like I said earlier, this is not just saying like, hey, I need help on the Smith project, or forwarding an email with no explanation. You need to clearly outline what needs to be done and what are the expected outcomes. When you do this, then all of a sudden we're much more likely to see success and to see your employee you know actually produce what you had in your mind than if we just again kind of throw it to them like a hot potato and expect them to figure it out. So I want to look at two examples together.

Dr. Leah OH:

So first we're going to look at the less effective delegation. So we have a manager. We're going to call him John. He's a team leader in an IT department. So John is working on a software development project and he decides to delegate the task of testing the new feature to the team members.

Dr. Leah OH:

The delegation style. What does John do? Sends out an email, right? What's the message? Can someone handle the testing for the new features? I need it done soon. Period Right?

Dr. Leah OH:

Let's talk about the vagueness of this. John doesn't specify what aspects of testing are important. We don't know. Perhaps there were previous phases of testing. We don't know if we need to look at that or if we just start at what was most recent. We don't know what criteria to look for. And need it done soon. There isn't a deadline for completion.

Dr. Leah OH:

So what happens then? Team members aren't sure, right? They're uncertain about what's required and you're likely to overwhelm them with this ambiguity. Some focus on usability where others concentrate on performance, and this results in inconsistent feedback. Without clear guidelines, the testing leads to misunderstandings, it can lead to delays in the project timeline, ultimately impacting the quality of the final product. So that was stressful to even talk about. I know that unfortunately, that's something that happens pretty often in industry, across industries, not just IT. We're not just picking on Johns and IT out there. Many, many managers do this and it's not because you're a bad manager. It is a hard job and you are stretched thin. So we know that that happens a lot.

Dr. Leah OH:

But instead let's shift to focus on effective delegation. So we're going to take Sarah, a project manager in a marketing firm, and Sarah is leading a new product launch and she needs some help with the market research. So the style let's talk about how Sarah does this. Sarah calls a team meeting to discuss the project and she outlines the specific objectives for the market research task. So what Sarah says is objective. I need a comprehensive analysis of our target audience's preferences for this new product. It needs to include demographic data. Two consumer behavior, and three it needs to include demographic data. Two consumer behavior. And three, a comparison with competitors. Right. So we already see very, very clear objective here the deliverables.

Dr. Leah OH:

Sarah goes on, tells her teams I need a detailed report with these findings, including graphs and charts to illustrate the data, by next Friday. So now we know, after we've done this work, how it should be presented. We know that it shouldn't only be text-based, because our manager, sarah, she's looking for graphs and charts. She wants to illustrate this data. We also have a firm deadline.

Dr. Leah OH:

Sarah doesn't stop there, though. With the objective and the deliverable right, what to do and what she expects. She also brings in support. Feel free to use any resources you need. I'm available for questions on Tuesday and Thursday afternoons. I can provide any additional guidance that you need.

Dr. Leah OH:

So what is the outcome of this situation, of this particular approach to delegation? Sarah's team members understand exactly what is expected of them, likely feel empowered to take ownership of the work and utilize the time Sarah allocated for questions effectively. As a result, they're likely to have a solid market research report that is delivered on time, with thoughtful insights that can contribute to the successful product launch. So what do we see here? In this second scenario, sarah had clear objectives and strong support framework that helped to facilitate effective performance and clear outcomes.

Dr. Leah OH:

If we go back to number one, to John and IT and again we're not picking on John here, and I know this happens a lot but when we are ambiguous, when we say, hey, this testing needs to be done soon, that leads to confusion. It can lead to ineffective results in suboptimal outcomes. Right, so someone is likely to finally take the lead on this in John's team, but what they deliver to him or the testing that takes place is not likely to match what he had in his mind because he didn't communicate it clearly. Clear and specific delegation can empower teams, but when we lob these vague instructions, it can lead to misalignment and a lot of frustration. So what are some other best practices for empowerment and delegation?

Dr. Leah OH:

One, my friends, I want you to think about the right person. Think about their skills and their interests. We got to make sure we are matching the task within individual skills, their strengths and their career aspirations, because this, in turn, it increases engagement. They're excited, this is their area and likely the success. And I also want you to think about workload. Take into account the workload of team members to avoid overburdening anyone. This seems incredibly obvious. Right these two suggestions the right person, the skills and the workload.

Dr. Leah OH:

But what often happens is that managers tend to approach those that they either one know will immediately say yes, regardless of interests or workload, and two managers tend to approach their couple of go-to people. Why do managers do this? Well, avoiding approaching those they fear are going to say no or will otherwise push back. But you know what my friends, my managers, my titled leaders handling pushback is part of the gig, unfortunately. Not saying it's easy, I'm not saying it's comfortable, but it is also an opportunity to show your team that work is distributed as equitably as possible.

Dr. Leah OH:

Else, do we get employees on board? Well, give them some context, help them to see the bigger picture. So, not only help them see it, but explain that bigger picture. Show them how this particular task or this particular ask fits into the team's and the organization's objectives. This helps to motivate team members and it gives us a sense of ownership. We tend to feel good when it's not just this one-off that John or Sarah needs, but rather, oh, this is helping us get closer to that goal that we've always been talking about. So we're going to explain the bigger picture. I also want you to think about providing any context that you can, whether this is necessary, background information, previous work related to the task, anything that's going to help to up your employees' understanding. Anything that helps them to see how this project aligns with their interests or their skills. Another thing that helps to facilitate engagement and motivation. Another thing that helps to facilitate engagement and motivation.

Dr. Leah OH:

What else? Communicate clearly. You know this is near and dear to my heart, my friends, but we need to provide the clear and concise instructions and we need to, you know, make space for questions and for feedback. Ensure that everyone understands the responsibilities. What else I want you my title leaders out there, I want you to adapt your communication style based on the employee's preferences. Is this an employee who loves face-to-face conversations? Hey, try your best to make it happen. Or is this someone who just put the email in my inbox? I will get to it really efficiently. I'll ask you questions if I need it, then do that, even if you would prefer a phone call or face-to-face. Maybe it's a messaging app and, of course, if you delegate that project, you pick the right person, you communicate clearly, you set objectives. You empower them then by giving them autonomy. Give them the space to work my friends and give them support.

Dr. Leah OH:

Handing things off can be really scary and it can be really challenging, especially for the type A's. I'm one of them, so I can say this for our type A's out there, this can be really hard, but we need to give our team members the authority to make decisions related to that delegated task. We have to trust them because you know what. We picked the right person, we thought about their strengths, we thought about their skills, we considered workloads so they're not already overburdened. We have given clear instructions, we have given everything that they need to be successful. Now we need to get out of their way and allow them to do that so we might think that that's done. We might think, okay, we have done it, I have delegated effectively. I was just kind of washing my hands of it. That's what you heard, but we're not quite done.

Dr. Leah OH:

I want you to lean into two additional steps in this delegation process. I want you to acknowledge efforts and results We'll look at that more in a second and I want you to reflect and learn. So one going back to that acknowledging effort and results you need to acknowledge the effort of that team member or team members. You need to praise those accomplishments. We are going to celebrate successes, both big and small, and this is going to, in turn, promote that positive team culture where employees feel engaged, where they feel celebrated, where they feel seen. We're not just going to stop at recognition, though. This is also an opportunity to provide feedback, and I want you to think about this as constructive feedback. So maybe something didn't go quite well, or maybe an employee missed a step, and that's really frustrating, but we are going to think about what went well, right, what are the areas where they really shined. But we're also because, again, we're their titled manager, we are invested in their professional developments. We're going to give them some constructive feedback for areas for improvement.

Dr. Leah OH:

And after we do that, it's time for us to kind of close this delegation loop by reflecting on the process. First, there's an element of evaluation, right, when this project or task is done what went well, what could have been improved? Regarding the delegation process, we're going to use those insights to be even better in the future. So maybe we thought our instructions were crystal clear, but when our team member brought us this document, we realized, oops, I forgot to tell you that, or I overlooked that, or I was making the assumption that. So, whatever it is, we're going to jot this down so that we are more mindful, more intentional in the future. When we follow these best practices, my friends, you can effectively delegate your tasks, promote team development and you're going to achieve much better overall performance in your group and your organization. And this is leading us to our final segment of the episode.

Dr. Leah OH:

Another way to break free of the myth of the solo leader is I want you to think about building a strong support network. This means surrounding yourself with people who can offer guidance, advice and encouragement. So what are some of the benefits of having a strong support network, especially if you're a title leader? Well, for one thing, it really helps to prevent against burnout. When we know that people have our back, we can take breaks and we can recharge. Building a support network, in my opinion, is essential to every single role, again for my titled leaders, but also for our employees who are brand new, and everyone in between. But here's a caveat Building a support network, this isn't something we can put on our list and accomplish in an afternoon.

Dr. Leah OH:

This is something that takes time and intention. Why? Well, trusting relationships? These don't happen overnight. In the field of communication. We think about relationship development like peeling back an onion the more time we spend with someone, the more we begin to trust them, the more we peel back and share our true selves, kind of getting to our core, to the center, our most vulnerable spaces. One of the questions I feel most often in this role is how to start to build these relationships.

Dr. Leah OH:

As an adult and sometimes this you know, when people ask me this, they feel embarrassed or they feel like they're you know they've missed something Because all of a sudden, when we're kids it's so funny to watch kids they'll run up to someone on a playground they've never seen them before and then they're best friends. And with adults it takes us a little bit longer, and that's okay. So we're going to talk about some of these steps, some easy steps that we can take to bolster our network. We're also enhancing our access to support. So one, I want you to be authentic, I want you to make that commitment, and this doesn't mean that every thought we have has to come out. It doesn't mean that all of our quirks have to be on display at all times, especially when we're a title leader, but people can tell when we are putting up a front or we're otherwise.

Dr. Leah OH:

Not leaning into who we really are Doesn't mean oversharing, it doesn't mean sidestepping organizational or professional expectations, but it does mean not presenting as a robot. So we can do that. We can share some challenges, we can share some uncertainties, with our help to help team members feel comfortable in doing the same. This can foster a culture of openness and honesty. And again, my friends, I am not talking about your deepest fears or secrets, nope, but we're talking about, you know, if it's a time when we're feeling really overwhelmed, overworked, or we're feeling overwhelmed, just expressing that to our team and like, wow, this has been a really busy, busy time, I feel like it's been a bumpy ride. Things like that can allow them to share how they feel and to recognize that we're not trying to, you know, be perfect, because we know perfect doesn't exist. We're engaging them in discussion and cultivating again that culture of openness.

Dr. Leah OH:

I also want you to invest in relationships. So, with your team members, this can be regular check-ins. So when we have these one-on-ones or even informal catch-ups, maybe once a month we have a team lunch. This can go a long way in building rapport and helping us to understand each other, our strengths, these challenges, these aspirations, our strengths, these challenges, these aspirations. When we know someone as a person rather than this, like what we see on the surface, is like a frustrating person who's always criticizing my work or giving me feedback then all of a sudden becomes a lot easier to see them as someone who's invested in me and my performance, and that's why they're taking the time to give me feedback. I also want you to encourage collaboration, so creating opportunities for team members to work together on projects or initiatives. This allows everyone to leverage their own strengths, to showcase their strengths and also thinking about knowledge sharing in that same breath. So, whether it is at these monthly luncheons, you have one employee share a new insight and experience, a resource or strength you know, or you raise up as the title leader, you raise up someone's work or project every month to showcase, you know, people who are really shining. That goes a long way in transforming the culture of the team.

Dr. Leah OH:

And, finally, leading by example. I know that's something you hear a lot on the communicative leader, whether it is from me or from our many amazing guests. But when we lead by example, we demonstrate trust, we empower others and that leads to a safe environment. So when we are consistent in our actions and words, we follow through on our commitments and team members, they know what to expect. One of the worst bosses to have is not one who is rude or who micromanages, but rather it's one who is inconsistent. So when we are consistent in our actions and words, when we are embodying that, leading from that, that is what we are modeling. Again, that goes a long way in creating a safe space for our team to feel like they can be themselves, that they don't have to worry about what we're going to say or do, what type of manager is showing up that day. They're in a place to do their work.

Dr. Leah OH:

As we've talked about, we want to delegate responsibilities, encourage team members to take ownership. It shows them that we trust them and this leads to stronger mutual trust, to a stronger relationship, to building that foundation and, again, all of this leads to a supportive and safe culture. We want to encourage that atmosphere where team members feel safe expressing ideas. This can be dissenting, or we want them to feel secure enough to say, hey, leader, wait one minute. What about this? We want them to feel secure enough to say, hey, leader, wait one minute. What about this? We want them to be able to raise concerns. We want them to share opinions without the fear of judgment, because, while it's no one likes having their idea questioned or perhaps criticized, but if it means that all of a sudden, we didn't take our project off a cliff two months later, right, that is important. These things are essential to not only building relationships, but to doing high quality work.

Dr. Leah OH:

I also want you to think about building relationships and expanding your network outside of your immediate team and your immediate workplace. Why? Whole bunch of reasons Outside perspective, learning what others do in terms of best practices, having independent and less biased counsel. Here you can think about professional societies, conferences, additional training opportunities. So we have tackled a lot today, my friends, but I want you to remember that the solo leader is just a myth and that you don't have to do it all on your own. By delegating effectively, building a strong support network and surrounding yourself with talented team members, you can achieve your goals without burning out. All right, my friends, that wraps up our conversation today. Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose. I'm looking forward to chatting with you again soon on the Communicative leader.

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