The Communicative Leader
On The Communicative Leader, we're making your work life what you want it to be. Do you need years of training or special equipment? Not at all my friends. Simple, yet thoughtful changes in your communication can make great strides in displaying your leadership ability. And why the heck should you care about leadership communication? Well, communication is the yardstick others use to determine whether or not they see you as a leader. Ahhh don't be scared, I got you. We will walk through common organizational obstacles and chat about small, but meaningful communication-rooted changes you can integrate immediately. No more waiting for the workplace to become what you hope it will. Nope. You, my friends, will be empowered and equipped to make those changes. Let's have some fun! Can't get enough?
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The Communicative Leader
Soft Skills, Big Impact: A Conversation with Andres Lares
Soft skills, particularly communication, are essential for success in a rapidly evolving workplace. The episode, featuring Andres Lares, the Managing Partner at Shapiro Negotiations Institute, explores the gap between the demand for soft skills and employers' recognition, the challenges in measuring these skills, and strategies for organizations to invest in soft skills training for long-term benefits.
Here are some of the areas we touch on in this episode:
• Understanding the significance of soft skills in leadership
• Exploring the gap between employees' desires for skills and employer priorities
• Challenges in measuring soft skills and effectiveness
• Timeless value of soft skills amid technological advancements
• Practical steps organizations can take for soft skills training
• The critical role leaders play in fostering a culture of communication
• Tips for employees on the importance of networking and communication
Make sure to communicate with intention and lead with purpose!
Hey leader! Thanks for listening. For more leadership communication tips, check out https://www.thecommunicativeleader.com/
Today on the Communicative Leader, we welcome Andres Lares, the managing partner at Shapiro Negotiations Institute and co-author of Persuade, the four-step process to influence people and decisions. His expertise ranges from coaching live negotiations for sports clients like maybe you've heard of them the Cleveland Browns, the Brooklyn Nets and more, to developing online content for facilitating real estate advisory Brooklyn Nets and more. To developing online content for facilitating real estate advisory media, banking and pharmaceutical programs. He is also a recognized contributor to numerous national media outlets like Forbes, entrepreneur, selling Power, sales and Marketing Management Training Mag and many more, and he's taken time to chat with us today. We're going to think about the big impact that soft skills like communication, my friends, the way that this influences your ability to succeed in the workplace.
Dr. Leah OH:Hello and welcome to the Communicative Leader Dr.. Leah Omilion-Hodges by me, . My friends call me Dr OH. I'm a professor of communication and a leadership communication expert. On the Communicative Leader, we're working to make your work life what you want it to be. Andres, thank you for visiting us today on the Communicative Leader. You're working in an area that is near and dear to my heart, I know to our listeners and, before we dive in, I was hoping you could give us a little more of your background that led you to where you are today a managing partner at Shapiro Negotiations Institute.
Andres Lares:Yeah. So it's a great question and you always wonder how will you come, you know, summarize a whole lifetime, even a professional career, in a short period of time? But I have to admit a good chunk of that is luck and I think uh probably that could be said for just about anyone. But but really the you know I've, I've always been interested in the topic and when I went to uh to grad school and uh kind of led me to find this position in the topic, and when I went to uh to grad school and uh kind of led me to find this position in the first place, I was attracted for a different reason because uh sni does a lot of sports work.
Andres Lares:We help teams negotiate player contracts and sponsorship agreements and so those are kind of high profile negotiates, if you will, and that's what brought me here and that was about uh 15 years ago and then I have stayed and then since about seven or eight years ago, I took over the business and I've stayed because all the other pieces I still very much enjoy the sports, which is what brought me here and that's some of the client work I enjoy the most, but it's the kind of the running of the business and the growing of the business and learning about a lot of different industries One day working in sports the next day in manufacturing, the next day in tech, and so that's really what's kind of kept me interested.
Andres Lares:Every day, every day is different and we work with some incredible clients and and I feel like it's their satisfaction, because you get to see the fruits of your labor and track some of the results and you get to have an impact on a business that's already highly functioning. That's that's been very it's brought a lot of satisfaction to me.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, that is so neat and I love the idea too. With what you're talking to us about today, it sounds like you've been in a number of different roles in this organization, like internally focused, with conversation certainly a lot of client external work. Internally focused with conversation certainly a lot of client external work. Soft skills again a huge part of all of that. So you know, when we think about soft skills, hoping you could kind of define how you think about them and then kind of help us see why they are so essential today in leadership communication, especially with this way the workplace continues to evolve so quickly.
Andres Lares:Yeah, so you know the pressure's on to provide a good definition of, you know, soft skills. But I think when I think of it, I think of a few things. I think they're interpersonal skills. I think of it determining how someone effectively works with and communicates with others, and I think also how they manage themselves.
Andres Lares:So those are kind of the three parts of interpersonal communicating and working with others and then really managing yourself and so that's really what comes to mind when you think of it I think it's one of the reasons that we're going to talk about it so much today is that that's really critical in every part of our life. Right, that's part of a personal life, whether it's a spouse or kids or parents or friends, and that's certainly professional life in the sense that whether you're not only managing people but also managing up working groups, and so they're really critical skills, and I know we'll talk a lot about that. Exciting to dig into that.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, I couldn't agree more. So I'm a leadership communication scholar but my PhD is in communication and I think if someone wants to see rapid change positive change or, I guess, negative in their life, it's a focus on communication for positive or kind of throwing your hands up and walking away from those interpersonal skills, and that connection is a way to see it deteriorate really quickly as well.
Andres Lares:Yeah, and for better or worse, I think, just like I think in a in a kind of a personal relationship.
Andres Lares:In a working relationship, doing good work or being a good person or whatever it may be, is important, but how that gets communicated with other people is so important, right? So you have two people that do the same job, but if one person is a particularly good communicator, I would say we would all bet on that first person to really succeed and flourish in that organization much faster, be much more successful, and so you could actually have the same work product quality.
Andres Lares:But the communication means that you're going to have better relationships, and those relationships will lead to more promotions and more success, and so I think that's important to think about, and how much this impacts over the course of a career.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah, I could not. I could not agree more. So one thing you've you've found in some research is we know there's this demand for soft skills, but we're seeing about half of workers think that their employers actually prioritize these qualities. So what do you see? What's the reason for this gap, or what do you experience or speculate? What's going on here?
Andres Lares:It's hard to know. It's probably each a little different, but there's definitely some themes and some trends that I either have heard, seen or I think we can with some confidence project. And first of all, they're the hardest to develop and now, the key there being that they can be developed right. So if you think of leadership and that's right up your bailiwick and your experience, those are things that there is some nature there. Some people are born with more advanced soft skills, but they absolutely can. There's endless amount of of research to indicate that they can be improved over time and experience, the training and so. But I think they're harder to develop and also take more time to develop and harder to track right.
Andres Lares:So we talked about today, so far already. We talk about leadership, we talk about communications and I think we both agree, and I think to every listener, communication skills will certainly be correlated with success. But then how do you measure whether you or I are a seven out of 10 communicators or an eight out of 10 communicators? And so that becomes harder. And so if you think of the technical training, right, if you work in a factory and you're slightly more effective at doing your job, you can see the output in that factory, or if you're a digital marketer and you see the results in the cost per click for a campaign you run. Those are ways to kind of track the performance of someone in the training they did. But if you talk about being a better leader, being a better communicator, being a better negotiator, those are a little harder. Now we are fortunate, and this will be weaved in today negotiation of all the soft skills is one of the easiest to track. So the two most common roles we train are sales and procurement.
Andres Lares:So we train lots of leaders and engineers and lots of other roles project managers but in those two and the reason they are, I think that is not a coincidence, if you will that sales and procurement are the two words easiest to track right. What are your margins before we come in and after? What are your revenues per person? What's your average sales cycle? What is the strength of your relationships with your partners or the price that you pay to procure a good? And so I think that's one of the reasons that we're fortunate to be in the soft skills area, but one that's probably the closest to being trackable, because it's hard to invest a whole bunch of money crossing your fingers that five years from now this will get an ROI that I'm not even sure whether the ROI is positive or not.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, another thing I've noticed, and you've probably seen this too. Back to measurement people aren't the best judges of their own communication abilities or what they're putting out, so sometimes we might rate ourselves lower. So people who don't necessarily like public speaking they might be pretty good at it with time and practice, but they might still rate really low and others are like, nope, that's fine. What we see more often is people tend to think they are warm and leaning into these interpersonal skills and relationship-oriented, when that's not what is being communicated to others. So we typically need self and other sources of evaluation, which, again in organizations, that's more time, more resources, exactly. So now, comprehensively, it takes a while to that's more time, more resources, exactly.
Andres Lares:So now, comprehensively, it takes a while to train it's hard to track requires an assessment not only from the individual participant, but also those around them right at 360 degrees. Yep, is this actually a better communicator? Now, according to my boss, according to my peers according to those that I meet. And so that's holistic. Now, of course, will the returns happen? If you do that systematically?
Andres Lares:Yes, and I think that's one of the reasons very well-run companies outperform others. But it's certainly that's. You know, it can be hard, it can be costly, it can be time consuming.
Dr. Leah OH:Mm-hmm, yeah. So this next question is about timeliness, and especially timely with the advent of AI and figuring out what that looks like in organizations, what that looks like in home life. But we know that most people mention having these interpersonal skills, these soft skills, is timeless. So kind of walk us through what you see as being classic about this. It's going to be helpful 50 years ago, today and in the future. And what happens to the importance of these skills as we continue to see more tech advancements?
Andres Lares:So I find this a really interesting question and topic because I think it's unbelievably complex in the sense that you think, if there's technology, we go even broader than AI. Clearly, technology has changed the way we communicate, right? If you go, if you walk into a room of you know let's call it an early high school class and you were allowed them to behave in any way they'd want, they'd probably be all messing each other, even though they're sitting beside each other technology messing each rather than talking to each other. And so, as far as you know, if you go to a concert now and there's a lot of younger generational folks every single person has their phone recording and taking pictures versus, if you think back to, you know, 20 years ago that scene would have been everyone absorbing, even when cell phones and cameras were available.
Andres Lares:It was the focus on enjoying the moment rather than, you know, potentially either taking a picture or video or being able to share that with friends, family, whatever, maybe. So I think the way we communicate and experience is changing so that's one. So I think communication is changing because of that.
Andres Lares:But I think when we more specifically then again to ai what we're seeing and hearing and also some of the research, even from our clients, that kind of do it systematically is that these soft skills are becoming actually more important in the sense that now you've got some managing people, managing now, decisions where there's more data than ever, right, and there's inputs from people, there's inputs from technology, there's inputs from AI. Combining all of that together and making decisions and motivating folks and being effective and productive is actually harder, and so it does make your life easier in many ways, right?
Andres Lares:All these mundane tasks automated tasks can be, you know just done for you, but then the higher level skills, which oftentimes are tied to soft skills, can be more valuable, and so, for example, we see Google when they come out with every now and then kind of the most important skills that they see in the future. It's essentially all soft skills. I think that's not a surprise, because those are the things that are harder to automate, right? Are harder to have, at least for the foreseeable future.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, yeah, exactly, yeah. Yeah, I completely agree with you that the way that we experience communication is changing and changing so so rapidly too. So let's think about the employer perspective. So we know that we continue to see statistics and studies reiterating the need for these soft skills and people you know really enjoy when interacting with those who are skilled at this. So we have this demand from all these different perspectives. But how do we get our employers on board? So how do we convince them to invest in soft skills when a lot of times they're not seen as the most immediate business needs, because you know they're not, like you're saying, tied to a specific line or typically a metric, like you're saying tied to a specific line or typically a metric, and we know it's going to be an investment. So what is that? I don't know if it's like a bit of persuasion to those in the C suite or compelling argument, but how do we get them on board?
Andres Lares:So it's interesting One. What I wish we could do and then I think we can talk about what realistically can be done, but what I wish we could do is have anyone who's considering it compare a couple of, have a couple of conversations with leaders in a few different organizations, so I can walk you through five or six industries we work with really leaders in the space, so very large multinational companies that are very successful, and if we just rate success it could be a lot of ways, but let's say that their shareholders have made a lot of money in the last five or ten years, and then some that have been stagnant, and there's lots of differences, but one that I think is perfectly correlated with success or lack of success that investment of their people, and I think the reason that is not only when you train folks on soft skills do you improve the skills that long-term they'll be able to then improve the company, but that investment in people is valued, and so that means that they're more likely to stay.
Andres Lares:That means you're recruiting better talent. So all of those things are really what's happening. So I think anyone if they had a few conversations with leaders at that you know company A and then company B, where you saw the difference in high performing over a long period of time and not I think it would be company A, but I just don't know that's realistic.
Andres Lares:So, the more realistic practical plan, I think, is to start with the folks that have been there a while and are likely to be there a while, and then focus on the most practical set of soft skills that are most likely to give you that return on investment.
Andres Lares:And so again, I think that's why we end up sometimes being a conduit for companies to invest a lot more money in soft skills, because we might train an entire procurement organization on negotiation. Well then, all of a sudden, when procurement has better results, then that leads to sales. The second spot or vice versa, and then, though, they might say we'd like to have some of our leaders go through this, and engineers and marketing, and so then it's, but then that'll lead to potentially communication skills, influencing skills, you know, leadership skills.
Andres Lares:And that's what we see. Negotiation is typically done before influencing, because it's easier to track the impact rather than influencing. And a lot of people have that in the category it comes up in assessments all the time with their clients, but they're less likely to pull the trigger on that because it's going to be harder to track and so someone's going to have to justify that expense. So that's kind of what we've seen and what I think is realistic.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah, so true, and you're talking about these high performing organizations. When they're investing, they have more skills, more retention, and I think we always underestimate how much organizational knowledge leaves with employees. We tend to think of just the role that needs to be filled and not what they take with them, and so, of course, there's that tangible cost, but it's much larger than we tend to see when we're looking at a spreadsheet. So I really like that perspective that you shared with us.
Andres Lares:And I think it's I love the way you put it because I think once you've been a manager and had to replace a few people, because if it's one time, maybe you got very lucky. Yeah, it's very difficult to find really good talent and even if you find the right person and they're in the right job. They need to be trained, they need to spend time, and the corporate knowledge transfer takes a while.
Andres Lares:And so as much as you should be happy for folks that leave on to bigger and better opportunities, because personally you know you should be happy for them there is clearly a cost to that. But I think it's often forgotten for those that haven't had to deal with it and don't realize how impactful that is.
Dr. Leah OH:So this next question piggybacks on that previous one with this desire. So we also know that employees keep saying I want more development with my teamwork, with communication, with leadership. So if we know there's already this desire, what are ways that organizations can lean into this? So, again, we're creating some type of training program but also benefiting the organization in ways. So how would you suggest or what should organizations do?
Andres Lares:So one thing that is worth mentioning, so that we're not just beating up on organizations that hey, they all know they want it as being valid, but they're not doing it, I would say, and I think more and more studies will be out there, but there's certainly from everything I've seen, heard, even whether it's an organization or clients.
Andres Lares:turnover was very significant during COVID, but I believe that the average span of time in an organization will permanently be shorter or at least for a sustained period of time, and we've kind of seen that for a few years now be shorter or at least for a sustained period of time, and we've kind of seen that for a few years now. So that that is in the you know defense, if you will quote unquote for organizations to spend less certainly right, because if I develop, you and you're going to spend an average of two years.
Andres Lares:You're not five then right in time where I'm starting to get return on my investment on that training, you're gone yeah, and so and I remember when I, for example, I remember hearing a lot of the organizations I worked with would rave about when I asked what was the best training I ever went through. Sometimes they'd bring up some leadership training. I remember I would hear a lot of folks, actually a lot of the sales leaders at some of the best performing sales organizations all over the world came from Xerox because they actually trained their people so well that actually braved into, actually essentially became a sales training industry.
Andres Lares:Yeah, because they were so good at internally training, that's, they were just focusing on being better the next month, next year, next five years yeah.
Andres Lares:They were so good that they essentially created executives in just about every other industry, and I think so because you're less likely to keep those people for a long time. I think it's one of the reasons you're seeing less investment or hesitancy. But what can you do? I think, if you look back at kind of the things that we all understand intuitively, everybody wants to enjoy their work, enjoy their peers, respect their boss, feel valued and produce satisfying work right.
Andres Lares:Everybody wants that. If you think of training, it helps you with just about every one of those right. If you're more skilled, you can reduce more satisfying work, and we know that that is a driver for folks. We know that if you communicate better, you're likely to have better relationships with your peers, your bosses. You're more likely to be valued, which, in turn, better compensated. So if you just think of it at a very rudimentary level, it does a lot of things.
Andres Lares:But then you've got to be willing to risk the unfortunate piece that you're going to invest in quite a few folks, and some of them will leave before you get a return on investment. So then the plus minus has to be worth your while.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, and I love pointing out that reciprocal relationship there, where it benefits the organization and of course we're benefiting the people, and for some organizations, like you said, that might just have to be good enough at a certain point in recognizing what training would look like down the road. So, if we have an organization that wants to implement a soft skills training, how does a leader go about it? How do they prioritize this process to make it systematic? Like, how does Xerox end up creating all of these? You know, essentially trainers that go out and are doing this so well.
Andres Lares:So I think the first thing is you ideally want to have an assessment of some sort, and this could be done in a kind of a more academic or objective way, through surveying, or it can be done not necessarily less objective, but less systematic, and maybe it's through interviewing leadership, whatever it may be, there has to be first, okay, what do we really need? Then I think you have to set your goals and objectives, because I think all too often people talk about, okay, what we need is X, x training, but you're still kind of a rudderless ship in the sense that you're not. You have a. The more defined your objectives are, the more successful you'll be so number one, I think, assessment of some kind.
Andres Lares:Then, to narrow it down, then goals and objectives, then I think you need to get buy-in from leadership, and so if it it's being run by the training part of the organization, then there has to be leadership buy-in and vice versa too. Then creating kind of a timeline and implementation plan.
Andres Lares:And I think that is more important than people think. If you think about, for example, we do a lot of global work. Well, it's significantly more costly to have in-person training, for example, but most of our clients prefer so not every client. There's some that you know we can do some pretty interesting online live, which is great, but there's some clients that really have a culture of in-person or also, you know, sometimes it's actually connected to they're bringing back everyone into the office.
Andres Lares:So I actually want to listen in person because if it's well received, it's actually connected to they're bringing back everyone into the office.
Andres Lares:So I actually want to listen to a person training, because if it's well received it's another reason to come in the office. Those are things you have to think about in the implementation plan, because now that's a whole different animal to be able to plan. Then you got to tailor the training. So it's got to be relevant. So if it's an outside company, they got to tailor, if it's an inside company, you got to adjust it based on the function. I think then the implementation of the training has to be really kind of hands-on, engaging, interactive and can I say this sensitively but enjoyable, right, if you want to be focused throughout the training, you've got to enjoy the experience. Then you got to reinforce the training because you did it. And if you just kind of rinse your hands off and say all right, yeah training.
Andres Lares:Good luck to everybody. I hope they keep it. That's not going to be enough for sustainable finance improvement. And then I think at the end you got to track the results, and again it can be through ROI, if you can track key performance indicators. It could be through 360 degree assessments, it could be through participant interview, but there has to be some way to have a sense of are we accomplishing, or looking like we're in the direction of accomplishing, these goals that we set out from the get-go. So that's a pretty lengthy set of steps, which probably takes us back to your original question of why don't as many do it.
Andres Lares:And if you do it really well you can do those things Now, hopefully, choose a partner that will do that for you, or? At least help you do that, but obviously that this is time intensive.
Dr. Leah OH:And I love that you make it systematic. So I've seen in some organizational work there are buzz, buzzwords. It's like, well, we need this, okay, tell me why. Well, I heard this is important. You're like, nope, what's the data say? What do your people say? And my next two questions, actually, you've kind of already touched on them. So first I'd like you to kind of expand. You know, what do you see as the role of leaders either? You know direct managers, the C-suite, what is their responsibility in terms of the environment to help their teams grow soft skills?
Andres Lares:So for this, because we've talked a little bit about it- I'll kind of take a very practically what we've seen the best clients do it's the best clients. The leaders will take the training before the rest of their group because by the time the rest of the group. That signals to everybody that my leader, I'm a project manager program. You know whatever. Maybe whatever role of an engineer that says that my leaders, I'm a project manager program. You know whatever it may be, whatever role of an engineer.
Andres Lares:That says that my leaders thought this was important enough to take. That also means that now they can continue to coach to it and reinforce it because they know the language. I think that's number one. And then when you do that, they're also kind of collaborating in the process to then roll it out to their so that it is relevant, it is tailored. So I think that's the biggest thing that we see. You know the best performing clients when they implement it.
Andres Lares:Is that simple, it's a simple recipe but, it's easy, with how busy we all are, to get sidetracked and all of a sudden not do that and then away you go reinforcement, and I think this can be especially tricky when you have something nebulous like communication or soft skills.
Dr. Leah OH:So what does that look like Like? What do you coach for that day-to-day integration? So it becomes, you know, part of the um, the norms and the rhythms of the organization, rather than, oh, I did this training. Okay, I've got to check this one skill off the boss or off the list when my manager's looking. And then I did this training. Okay, I've got to check this one skill off the boss or off the list when my manager's looking. And then we forget about it.
Andres Lares:So I think the reinforcement we can talk about, the one thing I would say, that's kind of the precursor to that, that's kind of the requirement you will almost prerequisite to even talk about reinforcement is that the training has to be delivered in a way that's a process and systematic. So it's gotta be built in a way that's sustainable to actually really kind of if you will Right.
Andres Lares:So as we talk about it in our training, for example, as a common language, so first you implement the common language, which makes it coachable, so that, and then, when you think of reinforcement, then of course we there's mobile apps, and there's lunch and learns, and there's books and there's. You know, there's lots of things you can do is role playing coaching sessions.
Andres Lares:But it's easier to do because there's a framework that you are reinforcing in the first place. So that's one of the reasons why the 27 ways to close, for example, might make a really sexy blog article title. It would be very difficult for you to implement because you're not going to remember each one of the ways to make someone uncomfortable, but if it's a simple process, a year from now you'll remember that process.
Andres Lares:And if in that meantime of the year, you're talking about it with your colleagues and your bosses, then that becomes kind of part of the company culture. And so that is the piece that really is, you know, really kind of the final determinant of whether or not it's going to be successful over a long period of time.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, and I love your organization's focus on that shared language, because we overlook that, we rely on jargon, we rely on acronyms can be really isolating and alienating for folks and that does not achieve what we're hoping to achieve. And so that focus again, that gives us that foundation we need for anything else moving forward. It's amazing that you all do that.
Andres Lares:Yeah, that is a perfect example, one of the things that when we're talking about folks, they'll say like what's a question that we haven't asked, that we should, which I think is an interesting question to ask or what are we not talking about, and that's one of the few things that we bring up that you're not giving enough importance to this. You're thinking about what are the modules covering?
Andres Lares:but you're not thinking about if you're really thinking long term, you want to improve performance. How do you create that environment where it's likely to happen? And that is a very important determining factor.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, amazing. So this next question. I want to lean more into your personal insights so you know that you've worked with really prestigious clients. I'm going to name drop the Cleveland Browns. You've taught at various universities. What are your personal experiences? Have shaped your understanding the importance of soft skills and leadership?
Andres Lares:I think one of the experiences that always sticks with me, and it started early on in my career and has almost been cemented the more and more we do work with just about any type of company is. It's a really interesting situation that the better you are a job engineer, r&d, sales, procurement, whatever it may be marketer the better you are at your job, the more likely you are to be promoted and eventually, promotion is being managing people and leading people.
Andres Lares:And again this will be even more so in your space than mine, but there's really not a lot of overlap in the skills of a good marketer and a good manager, a good salesperson, a good manager. Now we're going to assume that good communication skills can probably help you be better at sales, better marketing, better procurement, also better leader. But there's, you know, there's a venn diagram and there's some overlap, but it's certainly not a lot and so it's interesting.
Andres Lares:We're structurally still built to be that way that we get promoted, and so, as a matter of fact, I think it's detrimental in some cases. If you think of, like the best procurement person, you have the best engineer, you have the best software engineer. You're actually taking the best software engineer away from your team. You're making him or her a manager, and so they may or may not be a good manager, a good leader, and now you've lost your best engineer, and so I think it's really interesting, and so that is really one of the things that reminds me of the importance of soft skills, the complexity of it, the importance of developing it, and so I think that, just for whatever reason, that really sticks with me is something that I've seen everywhere and it's but it's hard to combat. I get it right If you're not promoting based on the ability to do that job, how are you promoting that? It can be, it can be difficult, so I get it.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah, I hear you. A lot of my my research has been on middle managers lately and looking at how, again, they are experts in their particular area, so naturally they get promoted. But then all of a sudden they're expected to carry out skills they maybe have never had training on. They're being incest on these new skills right. So they're essentially promoted, but to a whole new area that doesn't necessarily embrace or allow them to capitalize on those skills, and that's problematic for everyone involved. So now we have two final questions for you, and I really hate to begin to wrap up this interview because I'm learning so much and having such a great time. But the way we end all episodes of the communicative leader is with two intertwined questions, and it is this idea of what is your tip or challenge or advice for. The first part are titled leaders out there and the second part for employees across all industries and across all ranks.
Andres Lares:So I think to come to mind for for leaders, I think, all ranks. So I think two come to mind for for leaders, I think, and probably counterintuitive from being done. Everyone probably thinks and knows that this should be done more, but maybe doing it actually. But listening more than you speak, in the sense that I think we often romanticize a leader as someone and the same I hear this all the time. The best negotiators are like smooth talkers and they're not. Best negotiators are people who ask great questions to really uncover what the other side cares about, so you can help deliver some of that in order to meet your objectives and theirs. And the same as a leader. A leader is asking great questions and really listening and understanding and having a good heartbeat on what everyone else is thinking and feeling.
Andres Lares:I think that's number one. And then number two is about decision-making, and we've delved into decision making more and more over time, especially as we've gone deeper into influencing and it's. It is about getting all the information possible to make a good decision, having a very good decision making process unless there's new information that changes things dramatically, being confident in your decision and, almost essentially, making it the right one, because I think it'd be hard that, when you spend all this time making a decision, you make it and then you're uncertain.
Andres Lares:right, you spend so much time making this in uncertainty, and I think the uncertainty of the decision actually changes the outcome of it, in turn creating more uncertainty, because the moment you hit a roadblock, oh, I shouldn't have done this, or maybe I didn't make the right decision, but it's, you know, you've got to kind of trust the process that you had. So I think that those are two things that come to mind.
Dr. Leah OH:Can I ask you about the process Like is this do you have a specific process you tend to use in your organization or personally, or is this something everyone kind of develops on their own?
Andres Lares:I think people develop on their own. We have a couple of things from how it's prioritized. We have kind of an axis of how important is something how time sensitive is something and that helps us kind of prioritize and make decisions on what's going to be the focus right. So you can't do everything all the time. So that's kind of an easy one. It's just an x and y quadrant and so simple, which is great because that guides our conversations right.
Andres Lares:Is this something that's yeah, it's really important, but really important it can be done this year is ironically going to get actually pushed the back burner a little bit, then somewhat important, but needs to be done this week, yeah. And then the other one I think is kind of a weighted matrix, right. We think about, okay, what's kind of the expected value of these and how likely is it to occur, and then we build it that way and it sounds almost highly mathematical. I think, and I've said this, the decisions we've made that way, very rarely are we perfectly spot on what the chances are of each one of those things occurring, but the thought process has been very, very helpful.
Andres Lares:So even if these are the five things that are likely to happen if we go this way, these are the three things that go this way, what are the chances of each and how much is each worth to us as a company or as a business unit, even though you're going to be totally off realistically because of all this other information that maybe you're not?
Andres Lares:aware of that process has led to better decisions, more confidence in decisions and I'd say, talking through all those things have led to much better decisions. So that's what we've used as a company and what I've used personally.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah Well, and I love too. If you're looking at the importance in time sensitivity, we're leaning back into that shared language that becomes a shared model, which you know. When we're all working from the same place, it's amazing how much easier work becomes and how much better that output is as a result.
Andres Lares:Absolutely. I love that. It's like the simplest thing, but everyone's just the same structure model already. The communication is so much easier.
Dr. Leah OH:Exactly. And so that second part advice for all employees, across all ranks, industries. You know, what do you want to leave them with?
Andres Lares:I think in this case kind of almost where we started. That don't underestimate the importance of communication skills. I think we all want to do our job really well as we should. We all want to do our job really well as we should, but I think communication skills, networking, I think of you know, career success, a lot of people that I know, myself included, I've never even really applied for a job right, it's been relationships all along the way and it makes sense now that I'm hiring two candidates are.
Andres Lares:I'm considering two candidates. One has been vetted by someone that I know well and trust and they're saying this is a good candidate and another one looks very good, but I've never met them before and I have no reference that I can count on. Well, if they're, you know, if one is likely to be that good, the other one at best is that good. It takes away the risk. It'd be risky and they go that way. And so I think that you know communication becomes networking. All that becomes a really kind of poor success factor in, in, whatever it is that you do. So I think that you know communication becomes networking. All that becomes a really kind of core success factor in whatever it is that you do.
Andres Lares:So I think it's one of those things that we intuitively know but I think are easy to forget. So, yes, a reminder of that.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, I could not agree with you more Right. So I really think I would say communication is your leader leadership litmus test, because a lot of times we see a leader and we don't recognize how we're assessing someone and saying, yes, you're a leader, and now I don't really see you in that light, but it's their, their verbals, their nonverbals, the way they make you feel when they, when they interact with you, the tone and all of that Again back to that communication Excellent. Well, thank you again for joining us today on the Communicative Leader. This has been so much fun. I appreciate the work you're doing and I really appreciate you sharing your time and expertise, because I know this conversation is going to have a big impact on money.
Andres Lares:Well, thank you very much. I appreciate you having me impact on money. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate you having me and I hope that folks got something out of today.
Dr. Leah OH:All right, my friends. That wraps up our conversation today. Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose. I'm looking forward to chatting with you again soon on the Communicative Leader. Thank you.