The Communicative Leader
On The Communicative Leader, we're making your work life what you want it to be. Do you need years of training or special equipment? Not at all my friends. Simple, yet thoughtful changes in your communication can make great strides in displaying your leadership ability. And why the heck should you care about leadership communication? Well, communication is the yardstick others use to determine whether or not they see you as a leader. Ahhh don't be scared, I got you. We will walk through common organizational obstacles and chat about small, but meaningful communication-rooted changes you can integrate immediately. No more waiting for the workplace to become what you hope it will. Nope. You, my friends, will be empowered and equipped to make those changes. Let's have some fun! Can't get enough?
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The Communicative Leader
The Fusion of Business and Spirituality: Navigating Leadership Through Self-Reflection and Authenticity with Bryan May
This episode dives into the profound intersection of spirituality and business, with Bryan May sharing his journey from personal tragedy to professional triumph. Listeners gain insights into how integrating spiritual principles into leadership can foster authenticity, resilience, and greater success while navigating the complexities of life and work.
• Brian’s background and how it shaped his views
• Defining spirituality in the context of business
• The importance of self-reflection and authenticity in leadership
• Embracing flexibility in business strategies
• Reframing challenges as opportunities for growth
• Practical strategies for integrating spirituality into professional life
• Tips for leaders on fostering loyalty and vision
• Advice for employees on aligning personal and organizational goals
• Emphasizing the need for mentorship and communication
• Encouraging a holistic approach to personal and professional development
Hey leader! Thanks for listening. For more leadership communication tips, check out https://www.thecommunicativeleader.com/
Bryan May joins us on the Communicative Leader. Bryan is a highly accomplished entrepreneur, business strategist and spiritual guide, and he has spent years merging the worlds of spirituality and business to drive exceptional results. Bryan has a proven track record of conducting multi-million dollar transactions and selling hundreds of homes, bringing with him a really unique perspective to the table. Bringing with him a really unique perspective to the table, Bryan helps individuals and organizations unlock their full potential by integrating spirituality into their professional growth, and today he shares practical wisdom and inspiring stories with us. Let's dive in.
Dr. Leah OH:Hello and welcome to the Communicative Leader hosted by me, Dr. Leah Omilion- Hodges. My friends call me Dr O. I'm a professor of communication and a leadership communication expert. On the Communicative Leader, we're working to make your work life what you want it to be. Well, brian, thank you so much for joining us today on the Communicative Leader. We're really excited to have you and to learn more about your unique perspective and, before we dive into these questions, I was hoping you could share a little bit of your background, of what led you to where you are today.
Bryan May:Absolutely, absolutely. So. I am from New York, grew up on Long Island, had a pretty middle class lifestyle and I quickly became infatuated with real estate, got very heavily, bought my first house at 21. And after, as I was in college at Hofstra, I started buying rentals and it kind of just spinned off from there, snowballed into other things, started getting my real estate license and I ended up, you know, fast forward, opening up my own brokerage. I ended up selling, you know, more than 300 houses and just doing a lot of business, consulting a lot of business, and then later on I had a tragedy in my life and so I lost my, my wife. My wife passed away and so now I am engaged to someone else and, uh, we're doing like the Brady Bunch thing. She has a daughter, I have a five-year-old son, and so it's just the spiritual path, the business path and kind of living life and dealing with with big concepts, dealing with big issues.
Bryan May:that are really important right, so it's a mixture.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, that is so much to navigate in such a short period as well. You know and I think the older I get, the more I learn that you know to just always expect the unexpected. You just can't plan for everything, even though we may try really hard to.
Bryan May:Yeah, I mean, I think that you know diving into, like the spirituality aspect. It's important to prepare and it's important to have a plan, but it's also important to understand that most likely, that plan isn't going to go the way you want. And I think of like Noah's Ark. Right, Like you know, you have to build the ark, you have to process, but there's going to be a lot of waves in the middle.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah, I really I really liked that illustration. So to your spirituality, can you kind of walk us through to you how you kind of define and think of spirituality?
Bryan May:Oh, absolutely so. I think that it's a personal thing. I think that everyone can look at it their own way. The way I look at it is life is a mirror. So you know, when I say life is a mirror, it's like you have to look at yourself and just come to accept and we're all on different levels. I think the biggest thing I've learned is life is not an on and off switch, it's not a light switch, it's a dimmer, it's a big spectrum.
Bryan May:And so you know, like looking at Bible stories or any religious stories, you're reading them over and over again every year, right? Or any religious stories, you're reading them over and over again every year, right? Because as you get older, like you mentioned just a minute ago, it means more and more to you. So a lot of it is life as a mare, really going inward and seeing what's going on, because a lot of what's going on externally is just a response to what's going on internally, and so sometimes, when you see synchronicities or you see things going on in your life that are external, basically asking yourself like what, what is, why is this happening and and what can I do about it, instead of like, okay, this is happening to me? No, it's happening for me.
Bryan May:I still have control over it.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah, me, no, it's happening for me. I still have control over it. Yeah, yeah, and I really like the constant reflection. I think too. I mean, there are a variety of reasons why we should be reflective, and spirituality is certainly one of them. But, like you're saying, if everything, if you're looking at life as a mirror, it really helps us to recognize our impact on others, on our family, at work, in our community. Sometimes we're going to like that reflection and other times it's going to be harder to look at, but it's still giving us some information.
Bryan May:No, absolutely. And you know there's a lot of buzzwords right now and buzzwords are sometimes good and sometimes they're overused. But you know, listen, I think that looking at ourselves and saying like, just for example, victimhood right. No one likes to classify themselves as a victim. No one likes to say if you ask 100 people, do you consider yourself a victim or have victim mentality, most people are going to say no. So instead of asking questions like that, ask yourself or people where in your life do you feel you're more on the victim end?
Dr. Leah OH:of the spectrum.
Bryan May:Right, because that's a more honest approach than just yes or no.
Dr. Leah OH:Yep, yep, I agree. And so, kind of leaning into spirituality, I was wondering if we could think about that intersection of spirituality and leadership. So we've kind of talked about what spirituality means to you. Can you kind of tell us how you see it integrated into leadership? And with leadership I mean we can strip the word down to just influence. You can think of it in an organization, in your role, in your family. Whatever hits is what I want to hear more about.
Bryan May:Yeah, I mean. So leadership and spirituality definitely go hand in hand, right? Because a lot of it is you have to have faith, right. Your people have to have faith in you. You have to have faith in yourself and you have to have faith in God. So it's this combination of really leading from the front right. Your people have to have faith in you, you have to have faith in yourself and you have to have faith in God. So it's this combination of really leading from the front right.
Bryan May:There's a saying that my mentor, marshall Wilkinson, always says, and that's the fish rots at the head. And so you know, we want to make sure that we're leading from the front, that we're doing what we're asking other people to do. I am a believer that you need to know every aspect of the business right. Delegating is important. You have to delegate. The number one reason I see solopreneurs and entrepreneurs fail is they don't want to delegate.
Bryan May:I've spoken to many, many attorneys that are working 23 hours a day. They don't want to give anything to anyone else because they're like no one can do it like me, and now they have 10 clients and they're never going to make more than 200,000.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah.
Bryan May:Yeah, yep, so it's. It's very important to delegate, but you need to know, a little bit about what everyone's doing. Yeah, you know, yeah, Like. I'll just give you an example right Like, everyone's using CapCut, everyone's using Instagram, everyone's using these video editing. But if you don't even know what's possible, if you don't even know what the choices are, you don't have to be an expert video editor, but you need to know something so that when you hire someone, you're like hey, this is what I want it to look like.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, yeah, exactly yeah. So really being informed, being flexible, being a team player.
Bryan May:Absolutely, absolutely, and then it's really. You know, a quote that I love is I may be wrong, but I'm never in doubt, and it's kind of like you know when you're on the football field right you know you're going to make a play and you have to go with that play play. Now, if something happens, you can call an audible, but you have to go full steam ahead and I think that people, people definitely have problems with that right, people definitely have challenges with you know sticking to it and going all the way.
Dr. Leah OH:And now, um, brian, how do we, if we're, if we're doing this full steam ahead, um, but then bringing in reflection I mean, you brought up the audible kind of tell me what you think that would look like in a business sense, like if we have this plan and we're committed to it, but we're starting to recognize maybe there are some unexpected bumps that you know. What would you do there with your experience?
Bryan May:Definitely. I mean here. This is a great example, right? Everyone's into marketing right now. I mean marketing is more important than sales. Marketing is probably the most important thing a business person has at this point. And so you put out an ad and it's flopping, and so we have to pivot. We have to pivot. We can't just say, oh no, no, no, no, this is a great ad and we're going to go for it. Like the people are going to decide, the market is going to decide, and so it's about preparing.
Bryan May:Also, like, hey, you know, we've got a split test right Now. If you, if you split test three things and they all club, well that's okay, but we've got to like, really accept, and then we gotta call the audible right yeah and maybe we have to call in a professional or a different.
Bryan May:And you know like with marketing, people always want to think they know what's going to hit it's. Most people don't know what's going to go viral. Most people don't have a clue. Look what's going on with jaguar right now. Most people don't have a clue with. Sometimes you're get so the picture is so close to your face that it's so good to you and your team because you're on your little zoom call. Hold on when I put this out to the 300 plus million people in America and you know comedy billions.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah.
Bryan May:It's like you get so inside. It's a joke, that no one else gets. Yeah, and you say a joke. That's what it is.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah yeah, that's a really really good illustration. There, you're right, you get completely immersed and it says what you wanted to say. Or lands the way that you're hoping, and it's not always the case. Or it lands the way that you're hoping, and it's not always the case.
Bryan May:And I think that you know, with bumps in the road, right, I think that we all have to accept, you know, younger people, people in their 20s, in my opinion and what I'm reading I read a lot, I know, you read a lot they don't handle bumps in the road as well as good as other people, right? And there's a lot of jokes and there's a lot of videos about that, and so it's really about not reacting but responding Right.
Bryan May:Which has been said a bunch of times, but you okay, like the way I look at it is like um almost like every FBI movie where they have the board up the whiteboard, the pictures with the line string. It's like doing it that way and being like okay, we were wrong, John Smith isn't the killer. Yep, Now let's look at the whole board and let's figure it out.
Bryan May:Go to the bar, get drunk and start crying because John Smith. Yeah, let's try to really wrap our head around, because the fact is that every day there's bumps in the road.
Dr. Leah OH:Mm-hmm.
Bryan May:Way life is. You know what I'm saying. So it's like we have to get more resilient.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, yep, yep, yep, and I love that, and I think too, with my leadership brain and thinking about how powerful especially with your take and bringing in spirituality you can role model. Even if I want to be at the bar crying right now, that's not the choice I'm going to make. Instead, this is what the plan is, and I think that role modeling is probably the most powerful way to help others begin to learn that resilience and how to respond and not react.
Bryan May:Yeah, yeah, and I think that it's like, once again, it's knowing yourself. So just for example. You know, let's use this example of going to the bar and crying, right. So you know, maybe you don't want to go to the bar, but maybe you do want to cry. It could be okay setting a timer. And you know what? For the next 10 minutes, I'm going to complain.
Dr. Leah OH:Next 10 minutes.
Bryan May:I'm going to scream, I'm going to yell, I'm going to get this. I don't want to like bottle things in. So giving ourselves like a scheduled time to allow ourselves. You know, someone has a great quote where it's like you know you're allowed to complain for five minutes, but no more. You know something like that. And it's one of those things where you know if a bump happens you're going to have an emotional reaction. If you don't, then you're a psychopath.
Bryan May:So, it's okay, Like we want to have that emotional reaction and we want to give ourselves time to to handle that. We just don't want it to become our entire disposition. We don't want it to become our personality.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, and I think that's a really nice segue, Cause I'm thinking about kind of you talk about spirituality as a catalyst for achieving professional growth, and I was hoping you could kind of walk us through that idea growth.
Bryan May:And I was hoping you could kind of walk us through that idea. Yeah, so I mean, the number one thing that I love is reframing. I think that reframing is just so powerful. We all do it from time to time. A lot of books that we read as children reframe, but sometimes when you're in the thick of it, sometimes when you're on the field under the lights, it's a little bit different.
Bryan May:And so it's saying okay, there's a bump in the road, there's a challenge, there's something that's not going 100%. How can I reframe this as an opportunity? I just said to someone the other day a business partner of mine who is in marketing and he's very good at marketing and this one project he's having some challenges right. I said to him okay, so it's kind of like you're at step 100 as far as knowledge, but you're at step one as far as what's really on the paper.
Bryan May:So, let's just take all the information that you learned and now let's start at step one. But let's use all that information, all 100 steps.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I really like that. Yeah, reframing, it's such an important tool. One example I always use when I teach I teach a persuasion class. One thing that gets me more frustrated than anything is going into a cord drawer at home and I had them all nice, and then I pick it up and they were one like all. 1000 chargers and cords can be picked up once and it drives me nuts. And then there's one day I realized the reframe was well the other, the other option is I would be living alone. I wouldn't have this amazing family or this partner, these amazing children. So that was my reframe and it's been so positive and so helpful. So when I open up that drawer, I don't want to lose my mind so much anymore.
Bryan May:Exactly, and that's a great example, because, listen, it's okay if you open the drawer and you get angry or you get like that trigger that emotion. You want to quickly reframe it, as you know well. Thank God, I have my family, thank God. I have the ability to open this drawer.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes.
Bryan May:And then calm yourself down in a very logical way, because if you're just going to throw all the wires, yeah, no exactly. I love that you teach persuasion Exactly. I love that you teach persuasion I think that it's so important in business, in sales, in marketing, in regular life. I think that there's a lot of dark triad, manipulative kind of stuff. I think that people have to realize there's a difference between manipulating and helping people get the result they want. Exactly Example that I like to use metaphors and things like that.
Bryan May:The guy comes into a car dealership and says hey, I have a family with four kids. If you sell him a Ferrari, you're a bad person, right. But if you sell him that brand new minivan that has the and has all the safety features and everything else, that's, that's good, that's what he needs. The difference between manipulating and helping people make a decision, because advertising, marketing, sale, all about helping people make the right decision. And if your product or your service is the right decision, then you're doing them a disservice if they don't use you.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, yeah, and so we talk about. This can be seen as a dirty word, but here's why it's really a tool, but like any tool, even a hammer, we need to use it responsibly and be mindful of potential consequences.
Bryan May:Totally.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah.
Bryan May:You know, another important thing that I really do focus on and this has really become a buzzword and this is like you go on YouTube everyone's talking about, but removing limiting beliefs limiting beliefs and it's really a subset of reframing right, and it's amazing how many ideas, how many concepts we've adopted from other people right, and that could be parents, that could be siblings, kids at school, and it becomes part of us, but it's not our concept, it's not our idea.
Bryan May:So when I say removing limiting beliefs, it's seeing it for what it is, it's seeing the truth behind it. And so, just for example, you know, a boy in high school asked a girl to the prom and she says no, and let's say she said it a little bit.
Bryan May:Now for him to be like I am never going to date anyone again or I'm not worthy, I'm ugly, I'm not attracted, no girl's going to ever like me again, whatever that might be Right, well, no, that's just. It's just one person that doesn't, that doesn't get along with you, or? Doesn't meld with you and like to make this whole characterization based on one person's idea.
Bryan May:But the thing is, our subconscious, we we might have this little negativity or we might have this little bit of doubt, and our brain is constantly looking for reasons to buttress that point. So when the person says something negative, now all of a sudden you see there's a, so that one voice that's really not a nice voice is like you see, I told you and that's the proof.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah, it's funny. I just saw that Thanksgiving. Right, we just had Thanksgiving. I had a friend who was like oh, making pies are so hard, they're impossible. And another person, lena Vernon, said pies are the easiest thing in the world to make. And then she was like, oh well, I've never made them. My mom always just said they were so hard and this like was nearly impossible. And she's like well, now I'm gonna make a pie if this isn't so. You know, it was just that one person who kind of challenged it and it was like oh, I've never even tried this, I've just taken someone else's word for it you know, there's a very good story.
Bryan May:This young couple gets married. It's like their first night in their house. The wife says I'm going to cook you a steak dinner. So she goes in the kitchen, she takes the piece of meat and she cuts both of the ends off, puts it in the pan, she cooks it. And the husband said why did you cut the ends off? And she's like oh well, that's what my mother does. So they call the mother and they're like why do you cut the ends off? The mother says oh well, that's what my mom did. So then they call the grandmother and the grandma's like oh well, my pan was too small so it just fit in there so it's things like that that, like you realize, like, oh, we're, and it's also, you know, one more is like crabs in a bucket.
Dr. Leah OH:You know that's the negative version of it you know, we have to really view things from a subjective point of view yes, I agree, and so we've just looked at kind of spirituality as a catalyst for professional growth. And then you also talk about how professional growth is more than just business strategies and business know-how. Can you kind of talk to us about you know what led you to this belief?
Bryan May:Yeah, I mean, I think it's a combination. I think that a lot of times in all aspects of life right now, we're a headline nation, meaning the post or the times or something. They put out an article, they put one headline and that's what it is, when we all know there's three or four sides to the story and so you need a lot of things. So sometimes when people say business strategies yeah, that's probably two slices of the pie, maybe even three, but it's not the whole pie.
Bryan May:Something that is very important is a plan. Strategy is great, but you need to know where you're going. Kind of like riding a bicycle or motorcycle wherever you're looking, looking, that's usually where you end up, okay, creating this plan and you know you could change it along the way. But creating this plan financially, um, where you want to go, what your your overall life plan is, and reverse engineering it, right, this is all important. And then really knowing what you want and knowing what you don't want is all important. And then really knowing what you want and knowing what you don't want, right, and we don't want to focus on what we don't want, but we want to know what's there?
Bryan May:no-transcript. What's your take on that?
Dr. Leah OH:Well, I was just thinking how a lot of people will say something like well, I want to make more money, but then they don't realize, oh, but I didn't want to work those extra hours, that now I need to work, right? So a lot of times we will focus on one or the other, but I think it's putting them together that we recognize, like you said, that plan becomes a lot clearer.
Bryan May:Yeah, I mean, you know there's a good quote and I learned it from my mentor, marshall Wilkinson. But you know, everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die, yep. And so people look at certain attributes. People look at things and they're like I want that, but they might not be willing to go and do what they're doing. And so that's why I that's where social media gets a little dark right that's where, because everyone's posting their, their best videos, their best looks, except for britney spears.
Bryan May:And then everyone talks crap about britney. Be posting something real yeah but it's one of those things it's dangerous to. There's a difference between comparing and saying I want what Mr Jones has and saying wow, look at what Mr Jones has, look at what's possible. And so you can look at it perspective in a very positive way of like okay, if I do this, this, this and this, I will have this. But, if you're going to say I want Mr Jones' wife, I want Mr Jones' house, I want his life.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, exactly. So maybe leaning into this might be a nice connection. So I was wondering if you could give us an example of how you're integrating spirituality into your business sense and your kind of everyday professional life.
Bryan May:Definitely so. So something that I really, really love is this idea of be do have, okay, and and be do have. I just feel like everything falls under a category or subcategory, and so a lot of people in business, they want to say something like I was a realtor for a long time, so I'm just going to use real estate, but this could be for anything. It's like, okay, after I sell five houses, I'm going to tell everyone I'm a realtor.
Dr. Leah OH:Okay.
Bryan May:After I have five listings after I my my photo on the park. I'm going to say to everyone I'm a realtor, right, and that's the wrong way of doing it. We want to basically just wake up one day and say, okay, I'm the number one lawyer, I'm the number one marketing company, I'm the number one realtor, yeah. And then say to myself, okay, well, what would the number one realtor be doing? The number one realtor would be advertising.
Bryan May:They would be taking pictures viewing houses, even if they don't have listings. They'd be going to houses, they'd be taking pictures, they'd be making cold calls, they'd be knocking on doors. So now you're going through it like, okay, I am the number one realtor, I am the number one attorney, now this is what I'm doing, and then I will have the stuff, instead of saying I'm going to meet it while I have the stuff, and then I'm going to identify as what it is.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly Starting that way, and so then I'm wondering if you can share some insights that you found in you know integrating spirituality in that way, instead of kind of keeping I think the the antiquated way is let's keep that separate from work Work is work. Spirituality or religion is outside of work. So what have you found in kind of you know merging those and coming to work as a whole person?
Bryan May:Totally so. I think that it is connected. I think that you know to separate it. It becomes very robotic, you know, and you want to be that unique person. People want to do business with certain people, just like people want to date certain people, and people don't want to do business with certain people and they don't want to date certain people.
Bryan May:So you want to be very authentically you and then your people are going to be attracted to you. You're going to get the right clients. Not all money is good money. So if you're out there and you're just like kissing people's butts and you're trying to be who you think they want to be.
Bryan May:well, they're. Eventually, they're going to find out that's not you, and you're also going to be wasting time with people that aren't your good clients, and so I think that that's really important. I think that you know we hear this all the time, but it's true, you know taking time to meditate, taking time to pray taking time to visualize, right? Yeah, I mean, visualization is so important.
Bryan May:And I think a lot of people. They hear these things but they don't really do them, and that's why people do need a coach, that's why people do need a mentor, that's why people do need a teacher, because it's different, right? I mean, how many of us have like seen one of these you know quizzes? Or something like that. They sit down, they kind of look at it. But then if I'm asking you those questions, you're going to answer it, totally different than if you're just doing it yourself.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes.
Bryan May:Yep, and so visualization look, every Olympic athlete every professional major, michael Jordan kind of person they all visualize. Visualization is so important and I think that taking time to do that and really really writing notes, writing letters, to your family Really create like for me. I love WhatsApp. And I have groups of WhatsApp with myself and I just make notes and I send myself messages to myself.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, well, that's really neat. I hadn't thought about that. Like, I've seen apps where, like websites, where you can, you know, send a letter to yourself to be open the next year, five years or some point. But I like the um, the more informal dialogue with self too.
Bryan May:Yeah, I think that you know. We have so many thoughts every day. We take a shower, we go to the gym, we get these thoughts, but if we're not getting it out, if we're not putting it on either paper my handwriting is awful If we are not putting it on paper, or typing it or voice, noting it to each other, to ourselves or you know or to our team, then you know what is it doing it's going to waste. And that's what creates you staying up all night.
Bryan May:That's what creates waking up at 3am because if you would have wrote it down before bed, then you wouldn't have to worry about waking up. So it's things like that, I think, are like. That's like real practical thing news, and I love this line Pray as if it already happened.
Dr. Leah OH:You know really being grateful and praying as if it already happened.
Bryan May:I think that's really something that's special.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah, I agree. So I have two final questions for you, brian, and this is the way we end all of our communicative leader episodes. So it's a two-parter. So the first one is thinking about, you know, pragmatic leadership or communication advice, a challenge, a tip for our titled leaders out there. And then the second part is again that advice, tip or challenge to employees of all ranks, across all industries.
Bryan May:Yeah, so for title leaders, you know, authenticity is important right. When you look at the leaders of big businesses that are all out there, whether they're lean to the left or to the right, they usually are characters. They're usually themselves. So I think that that's really important. Leading from the front. Right Look Elon Musk, sleeping, sleeping at SpaceX.
Bryan May:Right sleeping at SpaceX right, jeff Bezos starting it in his garage, things like that. You know the front for important. Have a shared vision, right? Like, not everyone is going to be the right people for you. Not every vendor is going to be the right person, not every accountant, every lawyer, every employee, like if you see that someone is just doesn't have the vision. Every employee, like, if you see that someone is just doesn't have the vision you got to let them know.
Bryan May:You want to have people and you want to have loyalty, and so you want to treat the people right when when they have the loyalty you want to be able to compensate them in any.
Bryan May:Sometimes it's just giving them a title and sometimes it's giving them more money. But people will realize, as they're in the business long enough, that finding new people sometimes is a lot harder than they think. And you know something that I really like and it could be for employees, it could be for title leaders but treating people like you want the outcome to be so. If you're in sales, treat a buyer like a buyer. If you're dealing with sellers, treat a seller like a seller. If you're going up to someone and asking them on a date, treat them like you're going to say yes. Treat people like they're going to say yes.
Bryan May:You know, like cold calling, just, for example, right, cold outreach, which is still huge in business today. If you're going to call and be apologetic I'm sorry for bothering you blah, blah, blah, it's not going to work. But if you call and you just treat them like someone that wants and needs service, people are still going to say no. That's not the point. The point of it is when someone says yes, they're really dialed into you. We got to really remove the no's into you. We got to really remove the no's, really remove the negative comments.
Bryan May:Remove the trash talk, the page six, and just concentrate. Our people are our people. And if half the country hates you, you could be president.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, exactly, and with that, treat them as buyers, treat them as sellers. Your persuasion, like you're saying, that's different. You're going in with a different set of rhetoric. Your tone is going to be different, your posture, everything is going to be tweaked in the way that aligns with your intended outcome.
Bryan May:Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I say to people is let's say, you're a company and you're pitching your idea. Now, if I tell you hey, I know for a fact that these guys really like us. I know for a fact they really need this kind of product. This is going to be a home run, but we really got to put on our best show. They want to feel like we're doing it the right way. Now think about how you're going to go into that meeting, versus me saying, okay, I made a cold call. This guy's name is John Smith, I don't know, anything about him.
Bryan May:I don't know if he's interested, but you know what, just go out there and pitch him. It's going to be like night and day, it's going to be talking to a guy on New York city street versus doing a TED talk, and so that's what I mean we have to treat people like the outcome we want.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, yeah, that's really powerful and that's something that many people think about. So I think we get so lost in the nerves, the emotions, the what ifs that prevents that in many cases.
Bryan May:Totally. And then for employees, you know, I think, really knowing and really having a good idea of where you're going. Okay, if you want to have lunch and you want to go home and be home by five, or six o'clock and you want to clock out and not have to worry about, besides maybe some emails you're okay with 80, 100, 150, whatever it might be, that's okay, just accept that, and then let's just be the best version of that, right?
Bryan May:But if you want to do more, and you want to be at that C-suite or you want to do next level? Well then, you have to know where you're going.
Bryan May:You have to have that place so you can get to that level. You want to get a mentor, you want to prepare, you want to have a roadmap and you want to speak to people in the organization right, you want to make sure you're speaking to the right people and you're becoming friendly with the right people and finding like-minded people. Once again, it's not about, oh, this person is in charge, so I'm going to like the Giants because they like the Giants. It's like okay, this is who I am. This person is a COO. I like him, I like her. They seem cool, we seem like we bond. Okay, so let's focus on that person. Let's not pretend that we're this other guy.
Bryan May:That's never going to work. It's not going to build the long bonds, and in the corporate world things don't happen overnight. People are waiting years and years and all these people to move around to get that promotion.
Dr. Leah OH:And I always think about the cognitive lift it is to you pretend you like the giants with them and then you've got to keep that going, while also you know answering all of the other strategic work questions. I mean, it's just, it's not, there's no, there's no return on investment there.
Bryan May:There isn't, there isn't, and also you're. You're making your brain work five to 10 times.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, exactly.
Bryan May:And then you know what. What happens is you go to the Christmas party, you have two drinks and then the real you come out. You get angry. You get angry, you go into the drawer at work, which is different than going to the drawer at home.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah.
Bryan May:And then you know Stella from next door didn't put things back. You flip out and now everyone sees the real you yeah didn't put things back, you flip out and now everyone sees the real you. You're at a place for eight to 10 hours every single day of your life. Eventually the real you is going to come out. You can't have bad days, but you just want to be yourself, and it's just like I always use this analogy that I absolutely love, which I love pizza, same same.
Bryan May:So you go to the pizza store, every pizza store has the Hawaiian slice, but almost no one has ever ordered it. No one's ever seen anyone order it. But it's there, so you know people are ordering it. So we want to be the Hawaiian slice.
Dr. Leah OH:We don't want to be the regular slice.
Bryan May:That's good. We want to know that when someone orders the Hawaiian slice, they really love it.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, yeah, yeah, I really like that. Oh, that's funny. So my spouse actually likes Hawaiian pizza he's the only one and we met some friends and they were like you like this too, and like now it's when we see this family, they always show up with this Hawaiian pizza and they're both so happy. But yeah, I really really like that idea of it. Yeah.
Bryan May:Yeah, you want to just be yourself, you want to be in lane. I think that you know, like when something in business works, people copy it and that's there's. There's levels to it, right? We don't want to get a black and white on and off thinking right. There's Wendy's, there's Burger King, there's McDonald's, there's Chipotle, there's this right. Multiple things can work, but we still want to. We want it to be us. We don't want to just be simply a copy.
Dr. Leah OH:Yep, exactly Well, brian. Thank you for joining us today on the Communicative Leader. This has been a really fun and insightful conversation and I'm excited to share it with our listeners.
Bryan May:Thank you so much. I really appreciate the opportunity and it's just been great to connect.
Dr. Leah OH:All right, my friends. That wraps up our conversation today. Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose. I'm looking forward to chatting with you again soon on the Communicative Leader.
