The Communicative Leader
On The Communicative Leader, we're making your work life what you want it to be. Do you need years of training or special equipment? Not at all my friends. Simple, yet thoughtful changes in your communication can make great strides in displaying your leadership ability. And why the heck should you care about leadership communication? Well, communication is the yardstick others use to determine whether or not they see you as a leader. Ahhh don't be scared, I got you. We will walk through common organizational obstacles and chat about small, but meaningful communication-rooted changes you can integrate immediately. No more waiting for the workplace to become what you hope it will. Nope. You, my friends, will be empowered and equipped to make those changes. Let's have some fun! Can't get enough?
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The Communicative Leader
Transforming Leadership Through Conscious Communication: A Conversation with Aang Lakey
Leadership today demands a blend of intentional communication and conscious practices. Aang's journey from traditional authoritative roles to conscious leadership highlights the need for adaptability and self-awareness in leaders. We explore how intentional listening, empathy, and environmental awareness play crucial roles in effective leadership.
• Discussion around conscious leadership principles
• The importance of intentional communication and its impact
• Strategies for fostering a supportive organizational culture
• Reflection and adaptability as key leadership skills
• Empowering individuals at all levels to lead and influence
Hey leader! Thanks for listening. For more leadership communication tips, check out https://www.thecommunicativeleader.com/
Welcome to another episode of the Communicative Leader. I'm your host, Dr Leah OH, and today we have a special guest whose insights into conscious leadership and intentional communication are helping to transform the way organizations operate in today's fast-paced landscape. To leaders in the US Army and federal government, they are renowned for their expertise in self-improvement through conscious leadership. In a world where a recent Deloitte survey revealed that a staggering 94% of executives believe strong leadership is critical to business success, Aang's work is more relevant than ever. They emphasize the power of intentional communication and how it can help to reshape organizational culture, fostering environments where leaders and teams are set up to thrive. Today, we're going to explore Aang's journey into leadership advisory, uncover the essence of conscious leadership and delve into practical strategies for enhancing communication in your teams. Let's have some fun.
Dr. Leah OH:Hello and welcome to the Communicative Leader hosted by me, Dr Leah Omilion- Hodges. My friends call me Dr O. I'm a professor of communication, and a leadership communication expert. On the Communicative Leader, we're working to make your work life what you want it to be. Aang, thank you so much for joining us today on the Communicative Leader. I'm really excited for our conversation. Before we dive into that, I was hoping you could give some insight into your background and your journey that led you to advise leaders in the US Army, the federal government, among many others.
Aang Lakey:Yeah, of course no. Thank you so much, Leah, for having me. I'm super excited to be here and I love talking about this work and the work that I do, and I just am so passionate about it and so I love having the opportunity. So thank you so much for having me on the show. A little bit about my background.
Aang Lakey:I sort of I grew up in poverty and I ended up joining the army as sort of my way out of that environment, and so I never really anticipated that I would be where I am today in terms of, you know, advising leadership teams, and even the work that I am doing in the way that I'm doing it in the world has only come to life for me recently, after you know the life experience that I've had, the different roles that I've held in the different organizations, all of which that kind of led me into this field, and so, you know, I did join the Army.
Aang Lakey:I ended up commissioning in the Army, becoming an Army officer, and you know my leadership journey in that regard was very much focused in on an authoritative style, which is not congruent at all with you know who I wanted to be, and also you know my graduate work was in social work and then human relations and organization development. So, learning all of the different leadership styles and really trying to figure out how do I align myself with these, and you know the work that I've done in terms of starting in crisis, crisis response, transitioning into violence prevention, helping leaders understand how to prevent violence in their organizations, and how that kind of shifted for me over the years into doing equal opportunity work and diversity inclusion work and ultimately to where I am now, which is advising leaders on, you know, basic leadership skills that are related to preventing violence across the spectrum, and so you know, as far as my story or my background, it's really been a culmination of everything that has happened for me in my life and, yeah, I think integrating consciousness into leadership, which is the area that I'm focusing in on now, has been a turning point for me in really helping me to feel more authentic and genuine in who I am and how I lead, and also how I work with leadership teams to develop how they want to lead. And so, yeah, I'll pause there and say, hopefully that's enough. Yeah, sure We'll get into it.
Dr. Leah OH:Exactly Well. Thank you, and I was just saying I really you know it's an intro question, but it often ends up being one of my favorite because your background included. You see it really as a journey and you recognize this isn't something you go to bed one night, make a wish and wake up the next day fully actualized into that place where you really want to be. You recognize it's the culmination of all those steps and all of that work that's gone in to date.
Aang Lakey:Yeah, I was just chatting this morning with a friend of mine and we were talking about, you know, the seemingly unimportant things that happen to you in your life which lead you in one direction, and how you don't really think about it until you're forced to confront all like why did you choose this path and why are you doing this work? And you know, I only just started getting into podcasts and forcing myself to think in this mindset and you know it's been such an awareness journey for me to reflect on my own reverse gap and how I got to where I am and to articulate that in a way that's meaningful to people, and I think it's. There's just something so special about taking the time to force yourself to look at that journey and how you, how you ended up where you are.
Dr. Leah OH:I never, I never, thought I would be anywhere near where I am doing anything like what I'm doing, but somehow my journey has led me here, that is incredible, and so I know a big part of that journey, of where you are now, is about conscious leadership, and I was hoping you could kind of define that for us in the way that you think about it and then help us to understand what it looks like and I'm thinking look like if I'm in an organization, how do I know if I'm embodying this or my leader is. What are kind of those hallmarks?
Aang Lakey:Yeah, well, I definitely tend to think about it in terms or I prefer to think about it in terms of integrating consciousness into our leadership. And so there are so many different leadership styles, and regardless of what style you choose, I think there's an aspect of still needing to integrate consciousness into that. And so when I think about the work that I do, I like to think about it in terms of integrating consciousness into that. And we all know that the best leaders have an adaptable style that they're able to adjust and to be flexible in terms of the teams that they're with, because every environment and every context is different.
Aang Lakey:And so when I think about integrating consciousness, I think about consciousness in terms of just a general awareness of who are we, who are the people who are around us, and how do we interact with them. And then, how are we all interconnected across the globe in terms of as human beings, as sentient beings and those kinds of things, and how does the interaction of all of three of those layers kind of impact the larger system and so the world, the universe in general? And so when I think about integrating consciousness from that aspect into leadership, I think about it in a very clear, like systemic approach, in terms of every action that I take as a leader is going to impact myself, it's going to impact my team. How can I make the best impact that I can make? And I think, when I think about conscious leadership, I think about it in that regard, consciously or intentionally, thinking about the actions that you take, the decisions that you make and how that is going to influence all three of those levels, so the personal level, the social level and the societal level.
Dr. Leah OH:Mm-hmm. Yeah, I really appreciate the simplicity in that, because it's such a profound and expansive way of understanding and interacting and you really help distill that in a way that feels a lot more tangible.
Aang Lakey:Yeah, and I think I never, I never intended to do, to do things the way that I do it. But I'll never forget an experience I had with my advisor, my academic advisor, my first graduate program, and I just constantly was feeling like I couldn't keep up. I didn't understand because I really I didn't like the theoretical perspectives. I wanted to know, like, how is this information going to help me and how do I implement this in my life? And I'll never forget that. You know she shared with me that it's such a unique way of looking at the world.
Aang Lakey:Many people like know and understand the theory and they, they know that it's important, but they don't know how to actually implement it in practice. And she, she shared with me that one of my gifts was, you know, the ability to take that and to to make it tangible and to make it fit into the, into the world. And you know that was 20 years ago and now and I only just came to my own realization of part of what I do as a coach and as a consultant is helping individuals take these massive concepts and kind of define them and refine them for for them to know how do you actually use this in practice, because you know, I say this all the time, but I think it's the most important thing, like knowledge is useful or, excuse me, useless to us unless we know how to actually implement it. And so, like, how do we develop our competence in that? And we can't have competence unless we understand the most basic level of it, and so I appreciate you saying that, thank you.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, so when you're thinking, when you're walking us through kind of conscious leadership. You brought up the word intentional and I know that this is another major focus in your work, this intentional communication. So can you share some techniques that you kind of coach others or you've had success with in enhancing their communication skills, but particularly in regard to being very intentional?
Aang Lakey:Yeah, I will say that this is one of my favorite areas to talk about, because it's such a foundational aspect of the work, and you know, I'll talk a lot about reflexivity, probably in a moment. But since you asked me specifically about intentionality, intention is like the baseline of everything that we do, and when we think about intention in terms of communication, it's listening to understand instead of listening to respond. And I think when we think about bringing intention into our communication, it's about recognizing what are the behaviors, what are the actions that I'm taking. That is, actually showing someone that I care about what they're saying and I am trying to understand what they're saying. And because I think so often miscommunications happen in any environment, but especially in the workplace, when people are not listening to understand, and so you know you asked me for some examples, and so one of the most critical things that I learned early on doing crisis work was you know, so often I would have people who would come into my office and want to sit and talk with me, and you know people who've experienced terrible traumas that they should never have experienced, but then you know to have to talk to someone about that in a space that maybe doesn't feel safe. And so you know, I was in the army at the time and so I had this massive U-shaped desk and I had multiple computer screens and a phone and, like my cell phones and everything, and it was just, it was the biggest distraction because, you know, when someone is sharing information, hard, traumatic information, you know one of the best things that you can do is to actually get yourself out of that situation. And so you know, it took me a long time to learn, as someone who wants to have a safe and open space, that I actually had to get up and get away from my desk. I had to get away from my computers, I had to get away from the phones, I had to, like, sit with the person. And so I ended up having to adjust my physical environment, my physical space, to reflect like what, where can we sit when people come into my office? That shows them that I'm, I'm listening to them and I want to be there with them and I want to be away from the distractions. And so I think, when we talk about intention, it's about are you being intentional about the physical space and are you being intentional about your actions and your behaviors and so removing barriers, whether they're physical barriers, whether they're perceptions like your computer and your phone, like, am I constantly glaring at my computer? Am I constantly looking at my phone? Like the really basic things that, especially in an office environment, you, you forget sometimes and so bring by bringing intention. It's about reminding yourself okay, I need to get up and I need to go, I need to go away from this, this situation, Right.
Aang Lakey:And so I think I think about the physical space, I think about my behaviors and actions, and then I also think about things like, you know, did I ask this person where they're most comfortable connecting? Maybe they don't want to sit in my office, but the only way they knew to get in contact with me in private was to come to my office. And so, asking myself, did I ask them, you know, is this an okay space for you? Would you rather go somewhere else? And you know, being intentional about how do I make them feel safe, how do I make them feel like I'm here to be available to them and also just demonstrating.
Aang Lakey:It's talked about our actions and behaviors, but am I demonstrating to the individual that I'm sitting with, that I care about what they're saying? You know, am I? Am I using my body language to show them that I'm interested? Am I looking at them? Am I kind of responding back and asking for clarification, asking that I understand what they're saying? You know just really basic things that were caught up in the day to day of you know, I've got 100 emails to get through and then I've got a meeting in 10 minutes. Like forcing yourself to say the meeting will wait, the emails will wait, I want to be here and I want to be with you, and the impact of of this I have found to be transformational, I'll say in the work, and you know I definitely, when I find myself not aligning with my desires in this regard, I can see and I can feel the other person's discomfort in that.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah Well, thank you, that's a really thoughtful answer, and I really appreciate you bringing in the physical space as well, because I think that's one that's so often overlooked. We're spending a lot of time thinking about word choice. We're thinking about, like you said, the act of listening. We're not thinking like am I having to peek around a screen or does that?
Aang Lakey:Yeah, and it's especially hard and I don't know that I would have thought about it too too much, but I have a. I have a traumatic brain injury and so I get distracted very easily and I had to have other people tell me like I need you to focus on me right now and I need you to listen to what I'm saying, because it doesn't seem like you're listening to what I'm saying, you know. So like having to force myself into that mindset. And for me, you know, another example of kind of what I do is I have a checklist. When someone walks into my office, I go through this checklist in my head in terms of get up, get away from your computer, sit in the chairs. I go through this checklist with myself.
Aang Lakey:And when I talk about bringing intention, I think that that's what it is. How, how are you going to intentionally show whether it's a teammate or someone who needs to connect with you for whatever reason? Like, how are you going to show the people in your life that you actually want to communicate with them and, especially when we get into really hard topics, uh, showing them that you're committed to that conversation, regardless of how it's going?
Dr. Leah OH:So, yeah, yeah, so you've also brought up this idea of transformation and I'm going to look at that in terms of cultures, especially in organizations and as an OrgCom scholar. We are so nerdy but we kind of joke. If you want to change a company's culture, fine, it's easy. Just fire everyone and start over. So you know it's really challenging. But I know a lot of your work is focused on helping to transform cultures through conscious leadership, so I'm wondering if you can walk us through some practical steps that leaders can take so they're starting to model this culture of openness and awareness within their teams.
Aang Lakey:Yeah, absolutely. So. This is one of my favorite things to talk about because it's so basic and it's so easy, but it's so hard to do in practice and especially with leaders. And so obviously there are usually layers of leaders in the organization and the higher you go in that layered path, the less time that you have to think and to do. And so I think the higher you are in that organizational structure, the more important it is to dedicate time to think and to do.
Aang Lakey:And I'm going to say this and I think terms that are very simplistic but they're so critical to actually changing the culture. And so I would say, probably the first thing is what is the culture that you want? And say it out loud and say it regularly. And so if you want to have a culture that values openness and values communication and values you know a growth mindset or a learning organization, then you need to constantly say that you know our culture is built on having a growth mindset, having a learning organization, having open conversations and communicating with clarity and with ease. So you need to say it out loud, regularly, regularly. And I think the second part to that, so two parts to this first part, one of saying it out loud. And the second part is actually demonstrating it in every interaction that you have. And so, especially if you are saying it out loud, you have to follow through with the demonstration, because if you don't follow through with the demonstration, then you're lacking in your own congruence, which is hurting the culture and hurting the environment that you're trying to build. And so say it out loud and then demonstrating it in all of your actions, and I love, I think it's.
Aang Lakey:Harvard Business Review says it in a way that I just love, in a way that I just love, and it's a visible commitment, and so do your teams see you doing.
Aang Lakey:The things that you're saying are important, and so I read that in one of their articles and it has just stuck with me for forever. But visible commitment is so, so important, so important. And then I also think there's an aspect of recognizing and, even if it doesn't go the way that it's supposed to go, you know being able to say you know, this is something that we value. We want to be a learning organization, we want to learn and grow, and you took this step. Even though it didn't go the way that we wanted to like, we still learned this from this circumstance, and so constantly reiterating, like here's what we said we wanted. Someone actually did it and even though we didn't get the results that we want, we're still creating and building this culture and we still learned from that instance. And so saying it, demonstrating, demonstrating it and then recognizing and celebrating when people are doing it yeah, and I love that bringing in.
Aang Lakey:Sorry, I forget this part so much, but it's also really, really important, and that is um, holding people appropriately accountable to, to and so like, especially if you you're trying to change the and so like, especially if you you're trying to change the culture, and so you have a culture that's negative and you want to adjust that culture, it's not going to change unless we are consistently calling out and holding people accountable to whatever those those changes are. And you know, sometimes in my own brain I try to keep it as simple as possible, but I think is also one of those very simple things that is consistently overlooked, and so I'm so sorry, I just I wanted to say that, yeah, no, I think that's great and it's kind of what I was thinking.
Dr. Leah OH:So I love the the focus on the celebration part. So I think a lot of times organizations, especially leaders, who mean well but aren't necessarily being intentional. They get stuck on people's shortcomings or the flaws and certainly if that's undermining the efforts, then that needs to be addressed appropriately. But we don't spend very much time celebrating when people are actually doing it and then you're trying. You know maybe you're being vulnerable or just trying something new and if no one gives you any feedback, we don't know if it's working. Like, am I doing this, am I not? So I love that you integrate that as part of that.
Aang Lakey:Yeah, it's definitely an area I'm not really sure when it came into my like consciousness, uh, in terms of helping leaders to to understand the importance of this, but in so many organizations, recognition has been such a huge component in the, the feedback that that the leadership teams have gotten, and especially when you think about it in terms of of culture change like recognizing people for their accomplishments is is one thing, but taking it to that next level of recognizing people when they're actually doing the behaviors that you want them to do is so important, and I'm a social worker too, so I believe very strongly in a strengths based approach and you know, so often I feel like people do go to that negative like you're wrong, we need to fix it, kind of a thing, and instead of this is what right looks like to help people know. You know, this is what we want you to do.
Dr. Leah OH:And I think it's simple. Yeah, I love that. And then I think part of this conversation, too, is becoming you talked about being reflective, and I think this is part of it is being aware of your unconscious biases, and we know that so often, without even meaning to. A lot of times, these biases we might not even be aware of. They start to undermine our ability to communicate and to connect. So, with the work that you do with training you know, what strategies do you recommend for helping people to recognize, address them, especially if we're in a title leadership position and we're unintentionally modeling behavior that we don't even desire, that we would not encourage or want others to do?
Aang Lakey:Yeah, such a great question and there are so many ways to answer the question. I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to give a broad answer of developing a cycle of reflexivity and I'll share just a little bit about what I see that as and how to incorporate that. But I think there's a couple of other components that are also really important, and that is mindset. And so if you do not already know and understand the impact that society has on us in terms of the norms and the culture that we kind of grow up in and how that impacts us, I would say it definitely starts with a mindset of recognition that every single person has been socialized in different parts of the world with different ways of thinking and different ways of being. And when we can recognize that for the globe, then it's much easier for us to say what are the ways that I was socialized that don't match with either who I want to be or who I need to be as a leader, and so I think there's a mindset component of it. And then, once you have an understanding of that, then it's about having a reflexivity practice where you can constantly evaluate yourself and make adjustments based on that process, and so when I talk about reflexivity with leaders, I talk about it in a cycle of self-awareness, self-evaluation and self-adjustment. So there's kind of three parts to this, and almost all leadership curriculum includes a self-awareness aspect, but rarely do those leadership curriculums go into the self-adjustment aspect, and so if they, if they talk about self-awareness, they likely are talking about self-evaluations and they may talk about it from the standpoint of you know, here's some evaluations that you can do to like self-define where you're at. But when I talk about evaluation, it's not just about the criteria or the assessments that you take, but it's also about engaging with other people, like, who are the people in your life that you're engaging with? How are you engaging with them, and are you actually asking them if you're meeting their needs, whether it's your partner, whether it is your family members, whether it's your team, if you're meeting their needs, whether it's your partner, whether it is your family members, whether it's your team, if you're leading a team and if you're leading an organization, the employees at large.
Aang Lakey:But so often I think, when we think about self-evaluation, we don't think about it in the context of the people that we interact with every day, who who have a much better and clearer picture of who we are and how we're being. And I say this you know, sometimes I tell a story. I have a, I have a head injury and, um, you know, one of my partners had to to tell me, like some, something ain't right with you, like you're getting irritable, you're forgetting, forgetting key details, like I never would have seen that, and if I didn't have someone who loved me and cared about me enough to say, like you're not living in alignment with your values right now, you need to make some decisions, then I wouldn't have been able to learn and grow. Is the moment of I took my assessment. I um reflected on my values, I reflected on my beliefs, but at the same time, it's also who are the people in my lives that can see me for who I am and me for who I'm being, and and who are also the people who know who I want to be in the world and who can give me an assessment of whether or not I am living in that person's can't think of the word. Am I living in accordance with that person's values? And so self-evaluation is really important, expanding our view on what self-evaluation is for, but the most important thing is making adjustments based on that insight.
Aang Lakey:And so, example, going back to the example with my partner, like it's one thing to know that I get irritable and that I sometimes forget the key details, and it's another thing to just accept that for what it is and say I have a head injury, got something I got to live with, right. And it's another thing to say I don't have to live like this if I know that I have this, this problem. And for me, kindness has always been one of my core values. And so, you know, my partner was like you know that your value is kindness, and when you get irritable you are not a kind person, you know. And me having to say you know that I do not want to be the person who is irritable and makes people upset, like that is not in alignment with who I am. So then how do I change my behaviors to not be that person so that I can live in alignment with my values? So that self adjustment component is I see, I understand that I'm not living in alignment with that values.
Aang Lakey:And now what do I actually have to do? And so for me it was a continuous cycle of I'm getting irritable. I can see it in the moment. Now I'm like practicing my deep breathing. I am doing all of the things I'm supposed to be doing, but I'm still really irritable. I am doing all of the things I'm supposed to be doing, but I'm still really irritable, and so like constantly going back to okay, I tried this, it didn't work, I tried this, it didn't work. And so what is the thing that's going to, that's going to help me when I'm in that moment? And it's such a it's an ongoing practice, you know it's not like I did it and it didn't work for me.
Aang Lakey:Therefore, I go back to who I am. It didn't work. So what's next? How do I? How do I get to that? Yeah, I appreciate that.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, so I think you're right. It's it's so hard. It's an ongoing commitment, it's a promise to yourself and to those around you, but it is not easy.
Aang Lakey:Yeah, yeah, Um yeah, I think I think I'll probably in there, but did I answer the question fully in terms of?
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, yeah, really really thoughtful insights there. So we're still I still want to talk a little bit more about self-improvement, and I know that's a space that you like to do a lot of work in, and you mentioned a Deloitte survey. It says that 94% of executives believe strong leadership is critical to business success. Press to find people who don't agree with that, and I'm wondering, too, if you could integrate the self-improvement thread and kind of tell us, from your perspective, what role self-improvement plays in developing strong leaders.
Aang Lakey:Yeah. So I think for me, you cannot be a leader and not have some sort of self-improvement routine or process in your life. I think it is the most important aspect of being a leader, and so, regardless of what level you're at in the organization, your role as a leader is constantly changing and adapting, and you have to be able to see the context and see the people in the environment that we're constantly reflecting on and we're constantly asking ourselves what are the things that I need to know, how do I need to know them, what circumstances does each one of these areas come into my style, and those kinds of things then we're never going to be able to meet the needs of the organization. We're not going to be able to meet the needs of ourselves in terms of, you know, leading and managing a team to make sure that they're operating efficiently, in those kinds of things. And so I think if we don't have self-improvement routines in our lives for me I would say that the most important one is the cycle of reflexivity, and so if we don't have something like that in our lives, then we're going to miss out on knowing and understanding not only the context and the circumstances, but how our leadership plays into that and how we need to adjust to be the best in each one of those circumstances.
Aang Lakey:And so so much of leadership, I think, is adaptability. You know, if we don't have a self-improvement mindset and routine, then I think we're missing out. And of course, you can look at self-awareness in all different kinds of aspects, but for me, I think, the core ones that I ended up talking about are in terms of, like, building better relationships and building our own resilience and understanding. And so there's so much in the world that we don't know and that we don't understand, and the more that we know, the more that we realize we don't know. And so it's so important for us to continuously learn and get information and to grow and to develop. And, like I said before, like my entire journey, I had no idea that I would be here where I am today, and that happened because I was continuously learning and growing in different ways and in ways that I never even thought that I could. And I think you know, if you're not doing that, you're not serving yourself and you're not serving anyone else.
Aang Lakey:If the expectations are for employees to adapt and teams and the organizations to adapt. It makes sense that you need leaders that are modeling that and embracing that. Yeah, yeah, and I think it's so hard for leaders in general to want to be vulnerable and to step into that moment especially. You know, a lot of my work is in the military and it's in the government where people are expected to like, know and understand and be quote superior. I hate using that word but, like you know, there's so many expectations placed on leaders but the reality is like if the leader knew everything, they wouldn't need to have a team of advisors advising them.
Dr. Leah OH:Exactly Yep, and so this next question is what I'm really? I've just really personally interested in common challenges. So with these leaders that you've worked with that can be, you know, current past, I imagine there are a number of very similar challenges that you continue to see or hear. So, one, what are some of these common challenges that leaders face when they're trying to implement these self-improvement practices? And then, two, what are some of the ways that they can kind of overcome these hurdles?
Aang Lakey:Yeah Well, I think the common challenges are definitely different depending on the types of organizations and the teams that you're working with. Mine have, again, historically been government employees, military services and especially in those environments. Uh, probably two, two key things. First, I would say, is an understanding of the quote softer skills, and so the perception that leaders look at in this environment. Look at that. So soft skills are not necessarily as important as managing the budget and making sure their performance appraisals are completed administratively correctly and like some of the other things that other people think are more important. So looking at it as a soft skill and a kind of a negative perception.
Aang Lakey:And then the other thing I would say is also time. You know, I worked with the most senior levels in all of the organizations that I've worked in and they are consistently consistent managing numerous portfolios and they have to, they have to know when they have to understand all of the key areas of that and in doing that it requires so much time and energy from them. And so you know, lack of time and then also not seeing it as as important of a skill. And so I think, for for me, when I talk about what leaders need to do, and it's bringing intention to the skills and then also bringing intention into creating the time to do these kinds of things. And when leaders do find good ways, meaningful ways for them to incorporate it in their schedule, they almost always say that it was the best thing that they could have done. And so, in terms of like meditation, everyone's like I don't have time to meditate. But then, if they don't, meditate.
Aang Lakey:They're like I can't do anything because I didn't meditate, helping them to understand the importance of the skills and bringing intention to that. Uh yeah, and you know I share a little bit about vulnerability too it's probably really uh matches well here in terms of a lot of times they don't want to. Leaders don't want to be seen as vulnerable. They want to to, to be seen as a strong leader, a resilient leader and someone who knows what they're doing and anytime there's an incongruence with them, their competence in a specific area, it makes them feel really hesitant and it makes them want to step back.
Aang Lakey:And I think the most important thing that they can do in those moments is to step into that and to recognize you know, I don't know everything and, like I have a team of people here to help me, because you know I value your input and you're the subject matter expert Like I've got, you know, 50 other things on my to-do list today and and I can't dedicate the mental space to this that you can dedicate to this and so, um, being able to, to recognize that in positive and meaningful ways, I think is um a part of a part of that process, and you can't do that without having, uh well, accepting the vulnerability of saying I, I don't know this, and without the mindset of recognizing that I'm not actually expected to know everything and that I have a team for a reason and some of those things.
Aang Lakey:So, I think, developing your mindset around that and then also recognizing the importance of vulnerability, and I won't go too much into that. But there are many, many positive benefits of acknowledging vulnerability. But since you asked it in the context of the challenges, I'll just leave it there.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, well, that's really helpful and that is it's something I'm happy. As a scholar in this area, I've been seeing even more academic research and having more conversations about it, and I don't know that we've hit our tipping point yet, but we're heading in the right direction, which gives me a lot of hope for the way people are going to experience organizations in the future.
Aang Lakey:Yeah, yeah, I definitely think that we're at a place where the best organizations are recognizing that the skills that they overlooked in the past are the skills that are going to get them to the next level.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, yes, I agree. So your last question, I think, will be able to bring in that vulnerability and certainly self-reflection and thinking about if someone is listening to this or they've done some reading or they've been hearing about conscious leadership and they want to try and lean more into it. What are some of these foundational principles that they should begin or start making a plan for in order to improve and start embodying conscious leadership?
Aang Lakey:Okay, Um, I think I'll probably stick to what I've shared a little bit about already, which is the the cycle of reflexivity and incorporating that into your daily practices. And so let me share in terms of an example. And so every athlete, professional athlete in the world, has had continuous practice of self-evaluation and self-adjustment in order to get to where, to where they are. And so when we think about professional athletes, we see them in the games and we see how amazing they are, but we don't talk about every single day them going to practice, them doing everything that they need to do to fix it and to correct their nuances to get them to where they are. And you know, the thing with professional athletes is they practice specific behaviors over and over and over again so that when they're in the moment, those practices are habitual.
Aang Lakey:And what we need leaders to recognize is they have to be able to practice skills over and over and over again until they become habitual. Because, knowing that there is so much nuance to the contextual dynamics and to the people that they're going to be interacting with, they're going to have to, at a moment's notice, say what's the context, what is the environmental factors, who are the people that I'm dealing with and decide what is the best way for me to approach this situation and anyone who's been in a basic leadership class knows that there are 50,000 ways that you can approach a problem and so being an effective leader in the future is going to be who is going to be the person that can habitually respond to the right context and the right circumstances with the right response.
Aang Lakey:Those are going to be the leaders who are going to be leading us in the future. Reflexivity, then we're consistently practicing all of these behaviors and all of these skills, and we're consistently asking our brain to see what are the contextual factors, what are the environmental factors, what is the behaviors and the actions that the person that I'm sitting across from me is giving me, and they're consistently forcing themselves to go through these processes and thinking and like not just the analytical but the actual physical environmental things as well. And so developing a daily practice of reflexivity, I think, is the best thing that you can do, and that is exactly what athletes do every single day. They practice exactly what they need to practice so that, when they're in the moment, they can habitually respond, and so I think, knowing and understanding your weaknesses and bringing intention to that is the most beneficial thing that you can do.
Dr. Leah OH:I love that, and you've talked about kind of check-ins with those who are closest to you. What are some other things that we can do on our own, like, what could I start doing today that would help me to be more reflexive and then more intentional going forward?
Aang Lakey:Yeah, well, there are all kinds of practices that I like to recommend to people. I think you know it depends on who you are and what resonates with you, and so, like, mindfulness practices are a huge component to be able to manage your presence in the moment and to be able to, like, navigate the complexities in your brain as everything is happening. And so, when I think about mindfulness practices, there are hundreds of different mindfulness practices that someone can do, and so that if I say that one area, then I think the next step for the leader is okay. If I need to incorporate mindfulness practices in my life, what are some ways that I can do that? You know, do I want to journal? Do I want to meditate? If I want to meditate, what kind of meditations do I want to do? Do I want to have silent meditations? Do I want to have guided meditation? Do I want to have silent meditations? Do I want to have guided meditation? Do I want to have contemplative meditations? And then the same is true for, like, if I don't like any of those options, then maybe I require movement.
Aang Lakey:Is yoga the right practice for me?
Aang Lakey:Is running the right practice for me?
Aang Lakey:Like, what is?
Aang Lakey:What is the area that I resonate with the most in terms of slowing down my brain and focusing my attention, and so a lot of mindfulness is just focusing our attention, and so I'll say mindfulness practice is a really, really big way of recognizing that there's a broad range of ways that that looks, and then I would also say that so mindfulness practice is to build your presence and then also having probably some sort of mindset practices. And so how often are you thinking about the emotional state that you're in? How often are you thinking about the thoughts that come to your brain immediately in the moment, and how often are you questioning what does this thought mean? What does this feeling or this emotion mean for me? And recognizing I call them triggers I think a lot of people call them triggers but recognizing the triggers that in your mind and in your body, that impact who you're being in the world, and so I would say probably mindfulness practices and then mindset practices in terms of thinking and reflecting on what's happening in your mind and what's happening in your body.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, thank you. That's so helpful and it's really nice that it's really expansive, so recognizing maybe if we're not at a place where we can sit in a silent meditation, but running gets us to that clear mind and that awareness that it's not necessarily we have to do one or the other, figuring out what fits best.
Aang Lakey:Yeah, yeah, and I think too often people don't recognize the broadness of what is a mindfulness practice. And you know, I'll never forget I can't remember who it was but one mindfulness teacher talked about gardening and like how important gardening is as a mindfulness practice, because all of your attention has to be focused on the plant and the water and the soil, and like your attention is there and it's captured for such a substantial amount of time and that's what we need. We need to have something in our lives that makes us let go of everything else and focuses just on what's in front of us, because the more that we can do that, the more our body recognizes that. That's needed sometimes so that when we are sitting across from someone, we can say this is what I'm doing right now, I'm focusing on this person, what do I need to do to water this person? What do I need to do to nourish this person and to water and nourish our relationship.
Dr. Leah OH:So yeah, really beautiful metaphor. So I have two final questions for you, and this is the way we end every episode of the communicative leader, and so there are two questions that are connected. So it's thinking about what is the pragmatic leadership or communication tip, advice, challenge, first for our titled leaders out there, those who are in formal leadership positions, and then the second part for employees across all ranks, across all industries.
Aang Lakey:I would say that the most important skill as a leader that you can develop I think you called it titled leader, so anyone who's in a leadership position the most important skill that you can develop for the future is, hands down, the human intelligence aspects. Human intelligence aspects. So body intelligence, emotional intelligence, cultural intelligence, social intelligence, mastering those elements, because we all know right now that artificial intelligence is taking over the world and in 10 years time our lives today are going to look so different than what they're going to look in 10 years time, and I believe that the single defining thing that is going to separate good companies and good leaders are the ones who are able to master the human intelligences. And so there's so much about knowing what's happening in your body and what's happening in your mind and how it's influencing the people around you that artificial intelligence hasn't mastered yet. Maybe someday they might be able to, but I think you know right now it doesn't seem that they're that artificial intelligence is going to be able to master some of these human intelligences.
Aang Lakey:I will. I will say that artificial intelligence can can be more empathetic and more responsive to individuals needs, uh, than most human beings these days, and so knowing that artificial intelligence can be more empathetic in some circumstances. I think that is our call to action right now that these are the areas that we have to develop as leaders. You know, know, and so if I don't know how to be empathetic when I'm sitting with someone that's going to impact my dynamic, and if people are turning to artificial intelligence for that empathy, then there's a problem.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah, and then what about our employees of all ranks, all industries? What do you want to leave them with?
Aang Lakey:I think the message that I always try to give when I'm not talking to leaders is the most important thing that they can do is to recognize that they are leaders in one regard or another, whether that is in their personal lives, in their communities, in their you know, I can't think of what I'm trying to say right now, but like all of the communities that they interact with, in some ways they are the person that someone is looking up to and saying I want to be like that person, and so I think, if we can recognize for ourselves the impact that we have on the world and let's just keep it in a team and an organizational context right Even if I'm not in the leadership position, I can still influence the culture, I can still influence the people around me, and I can still influence the people above me and the people below me, even if I don't have an official title.
Aang Lakey:And so I think the most important thing for employees is to recognize that we are all leaders in some regard, and even if not in the organization, we don't have an official title, we can still influence change, and I think that is yeah.
Dr. Leah OH:Excellent. Yes, I love it because I think, at its heart, leadership means to influence, and we lean into that in all different ways.
Aang Lakey:Yeah, totally agree.
Dr. Leah OH:Excellent Well, and thank you for sharing your time and your expertise with us today. I've had a lot of fun chatting with you and learning more about the work that you do, so thank you again.
Aang Lakey:Thank you so so much. I really appreciate it again.
Dr. Leah OH:So I thank you All right my friends, that wraps up our conversation today. Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose. I'm looking forward to chatting with you again soon on the Communicative Leader.
