The Communicative Leader
On The Communicative Leader, we're making your work life what you want it to be. Do you need years of training or special equipment? Not at all my friends. Simple, yet thoughtful changes in your communication can make great strides in displaying your leadership ability. And why the heck should you care about leadership communication? Well, communication is the yardstick others use to determine whether or not they see you as a leader. Ahhh don't be scared, I got you. We will walk through common organizational obstacles and chat about small, but meaningful communication-rooted changes you can integrate immediately. No more waiting for the workplace to become what you hope it will. Nope. You, my friends, will be empowered and equipped to make those changes. Let's have some fun! Can't get enough?
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The Communicative Leader
Redefining the Path – Empowering Midlife Women Through Communication: A Conversation with Sairan Aqrawi
This conversation empowers midlife women, providing them with practical strategies to redefine their careers and embrace new opportunities. We explore vital communication themes, mentorship's role, and overcoming imposter syndrome, focusing on actionable steps to regain confidence.
• Emphasis on effective communication and self-promotion
• Strategies to overcome imposter syndrome
• Insights on embracing career shifts as opportunities
• Importance of mentorship for personal growth
• Networking as a two-way street for success
• Encouragement to redefine success during midlife
Mention Dr. Leah's name for a complimentary 30-minute session with Sairan for personalized advice on scaling your LinkedIn or starting a side project.
Hey leader! Thanks for listening. For more leadership communication tips, check out https://www.thecommunicativeleader.com/
Hi, welcome to another episode of the Communicative Leader. I'm your host, Dr. Leah OH, and today we're privileged to have Sairan Aqrawi join us. This is going to be a transformative conversation about empowering midlife women. Sayron is an accomplished engineer and also a business coach and strategist who's dedicated to supporting midlife women as they navigate unique challenges and opportunities in the professional landscape. With a passion sparked by her own journey, Saeron understands firsthand the complexities women face during this pivotal stage of life and career. In this episode, we're going to explore the common communication patterns that might hold midlife women back, strategies for articulating their value and how they can embrace evolving priorities. Sae Ron will also share her insights on networking, overcoming imposter syndrome and the important role of mentorship and fostering empowerment.
Dr. Leah OH:Whether you're a midlife woman seeking to redefine your career path or a leader looking to support your female colleagues, this conversation is packed with actionable advice, encouragement and inspiration to help you thrive in your career. So let's dive in and have some fun. Hello and welcome to the Communicative Leader hosted by me, Dr Leah Omilion- Hodges. My friends call me Dr OH. I'm a professor of communication and a leadership communication expert. I'm the communicative leader. We're working to make your work life what you want it to be, Sairan, we're so excited to have you on the communicative leader and, before we dive in for our listeners, can you share a bit about your journey into coaching and strategy and what specifically sparked that passion for empowering midlife women?
Sairan Aqrawi:Thank you, dr Leah, for having me at your lovely podcast. As you see on my LinkedIn page, it's over 30 years engineering. That's telling you for sure I'm old. I'm not a new grad from engineering. So my bachelor is civil engineering, which is all construction. I started with wood on the ground, doing survey, field inspection just start from the bottom, doing everything what civil engineers do. And then, when I moved to the United States in 1996, engineer do. And then, when I moved to United States in 1996, I knew that I need to pursue more grad degree in order to, you know, scale my engineering career. So I went back to school and I earned my master's degree in system integration and right after that, I started the doctoral program in 2018. I was all pumped up, excited. Yay, I'm smart math, this is my baby, I can do it, no problem. Well, I was wrong, right, because doctoral, as you know, you earn a PhD degree in doctorate. You know how hard it is.
Dr. Leah OH:It's dedication.
Sairan Aqrawi:It's literally. I knew later, after the first semester, I need to be in a cave and just grow a bear and just right and just you know, just study and do research. I could not handle the first semester because it was too much on me. I had two kids back then and a teenage in high school, and my husband was overseas traveling 80% of the time and I was here. I am almost a single mom, taking care of two kids, working full time job and starting a doctorate. But always live, dr Leah, put things in front of us in purpose to to pivot and redirect us to different direction, for something more impactful in our life. And that's exactly what happened when I was at my doctorate program.
Sairan Aqrawi:Right after the first semester, I was approached by the Department of Women in Engineering at my university. They said they'd like me to give a speech for the younger engineer who's just graduating from engineering school. Basically talk about the reality, about women in engineering. What does look like when you graduate and you hit the workforce? Is it all rosy? Is everybody will welcome them? As you know, it's never the case. So I was like, okay, I'm not a speaker, but I will give it a shot. So I went there and after I spoke with those younger engineers I think it was like an hour and a half the head of the department approached me and she said oh, the girls loved you. You happen to be a live and business coach. And I thought in my mind, coaches is just for athletes, because I was a swimming coach myself back in Iraq and I was like no, I was just a swimming coach. She said oh, they really loved the way how you, you know, address the stories and how to illustrate the real life. There was a lot of, you know, sense of humor. You make them very relaxed. You didn't scare them about the reality. I think you are born a coach and I was like what she's talking about? She made me curious. I put my doctoral in freeze it's still in the freeze until now and I fell in love with the coaching and mentoring and I started a small business and the rest is history.
Sairan Aqrawi:So I see my life in a way transition, although I'm still a full-time engineer doing engineering job nine to five. But my passion and my skill and my hidden gem and my everything speak to me when I really see me in the room with women, not only empowering them, because motivation and empowerment. It doesn't last long. It's like a painkiller right you can give it to someone and they just relax for a couple of hours. Mine is more about action and strategy. This is why, after five years being a transition expert in coaching women who internationally moved to the United States legally with an engineering degree, I was helping them to fulfill their American dream and I was like you know what? I'm an engineer. I should be more courageous and change my niche. So I changed my niche 2023 and I become a business strategist. Basically, I guide midlife women to really think about their midlife stage, not as an end, but as a rebirth. This is a time to rediscover hidden talent, redefine their success and take bold action towards new opportunities.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, Thank you, Sairan. There's so, so many beautiful things that you pulled in there and I really love that you're just demonstrating the amount of kind of flex and leaning into demonstrating the amount of kind of flex and leaning into new curiosities and interests and passions, because I think so many think, oh, I've got this job, I have this degree and I'm done and this is what it is and this is my lane and for some that will work, but for many we recognize that's not going to keep filling all of these different needs that we have filling all of these different needs that we have.
Sairan Aqrawi:Yes, yes, and you said, dr Leah, something, a word, very profound curiosity, and I feel if you lose that curiosity and the ability to create and innovate, you are aging automatically. If I'm 50 and I play it so safe every day I go to work, pick up the paycheck, have two, three vacation with my kids, taking pictures on Instagram, make it look like it's the best family. That is no joy there, that's just a routine day by day. But the curiosity you mentioned and the ability to keep innovating, keep having ability to, it's all energy, like I'm creating an idea, I'm creating a small business. That's what you feel at your midlife. You're 50. You feel you are 30 because you keep producing ideas. So there is no limit for women.
Dr. Leah OH:Excellent. And so with that and you know, I know that you've been doing this for a while and in different capacities, but I imagine kind of across the board, there have been some unique challenges and opportunities that you've kind of seen emerge for many women that are facing in midlife in their careers.
Sairan Aqrawi:Yes for sure. I mean, those challenges will never go away If I come here to this podcast and I say, oh, you can delete those challenges, guess what? It will never go away. If I come here to this podcast and I say, oh, you can delete those challenges, guess what? It will never go away why those blocks basically stay there. We just need to have the skills how to handle those challenges and block, how to jump over them or how to befriend them.
Sairan Aqrawi:I see, on Midlife Woman, we face really unique challenges in the professional world. Let's talk about the professional career. You see the ageism. You see the shifting career priorities. You see younger people who climb the ladder way faster than you. And here you are with the experience, with the credential, with all the degree you have. You see someone with maybe heavier network skills right, he become your boss or he become someone higher than you. I see those challenges still there. But the opportunity I always tell the midlife woman when they approach me to be a client, I said never, ever forget the skills and the experience you have. No one can take that away from you. Dr Leah, you can be in the room. I can bring all those geeks my kid's age come challenging you, but there is only one, dr Leah, who has over 20 years experience. That amount of experience and skills you have, nobody can take it away from you, no one. You just have to leverage it. You have to celebrate it and also think about it.
Sairan Aqrawi:For midlife women we get to a point when we hit our 50, the ability for solving problems. It's amazing my daughter always telling me mom, why you don't let go, why you need to solve everything. Like I take my engineering equation ability even to life, like when something happened in the house and I'm trying to be a handy woman and fix things, she said mom, just ask someone to fix it. Hit the midlife. We feel like we have the ability to solve problems, even if it's not related to experience, even if it's not position or law or engineering. We have that skill set. Let me see how can I do this. And also the most important things we have in midlife as women. We have a strong emotional intelligence and this emotional intelligence and confidence and ability to handle our emotion and being like, contained and be you know, like when you see somebody oh, he's a stoic, right, he's very stoic, because that doesn't come when you are 20. With all respect to the younger generation I have two in the house.
Sairan Aqrawi:I have 23 and 21, my son and my daughter. They are very, very, very stoic, very mature, but in general you don't get that competent and confidence until many years of experience. So the opportunity, as we have the challenges, so the opportunity is there. It's treat that stage as a time for reinvention rather than limitation. This is not a limitation stage, this is a reinvention.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, what a powerful way for you to help reframe that Because, again, you're getting so many messages from society and, whether it's explicit or implicit, like you said, you're watching other people progress more quickly but instead of, you know, leaning into that negative narrative, looking and saying you know, what have I developed? What have I cultivated that others haven't had the opportunity to or the need to?
Sairan Aqrawi:Exactly, you said, what you cultivated is layers. It's a year after year after year. Your reputation at Dr Leah, at your career, didn't come overnight. You worked so hard in order to get to this point and no one can take that away from you so powerful.
Dr. Leah OH:So I'm wondering now, as, as a communication scholar, I'm going to ask you about some of these common communication patterns or habits that you see, especially among midlife women, that might be holding them back from achieving their full potential.
Sairan Aqrawi:Very good question. I love that because we do it every day, I'm guilty of doing it, I'm still doing it Every time. I'm like. Let me rephrase what I just said.
Sairan Aqrawi:We feel, because we are in midlife stages, we hesitate to self-promote. We think that we have this belief that, oh, my work should speak for itself. No, it's not. Everything is now marketing and sell. You sell yourself everywhere, right and speaking gigs and podcasts and conferences and staff meeting, even in educational institutions. You have to really market yourself. In a way, you need to remind the audience what is your real value. Because we tend to be like, we kind of like play it safe. We go in the corner, we sit on the table, say I'm just listening, no, listen and also add value. And people always call you back, dr Leah, when they see the value. They said, oh, her appearance, oh, my God, she adds so much value. So people always tend to run to that. So don't be hesitant at a midlife woman to sell promotion, because not all the time your work speak for that and other things.
Sairan Aqrawi:I see I'm guilty of that, I'm still doing it. I try to reduce it as much as I can. We over-apologize, we use a lot of passive language. And when we say, for example, he said, oh, let me help you, I think I believe. Don't think and believe, just say shift that language.
Sairan Aqrawi:Say I recommend, I recommend you to do this. And when you are in 50 or, like me, in mid-50s, say I recommend I seen it. When I tell a younger engineer in the team, I recommend you to do this way, I'm mentoring that young girl. I'm not saying that because I read that time that lines in a book. It's not just reading book, I've been in it, I've been through it right. So we need to kind of be careful about our language. We need to choose the word. They teach us at the coaching school said always try to tweak or change the negative connotation to something more powerful. So when people come to you say I'm old, I say no, you are wise. Oh, I am not able. No, you are facing challenges. Don't say problems, say challenges. So we need to watch our languages in order to come across someone with skills and more wisdom.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, yes, I love that. I was thinking you know, if I just watched a YouTube video and I think this is how I fix my sink at home, because you know I have self-efficacy, I can say I think that. But when I'm in a meeting and someone's asking me for leadership advice, I recommend what I've learned, what I've studied, what I've found.
Sairan Aqrawi:Yes, thank you very much. Exactly Because it's come from a place of experience and skills. You have not accumulated this from reading a book or, like you said, watching a YouTube. That doesn't make you an expert, yep, that doesn't make you an expert, right.
Dr. Leah OH:Exactly so. Let's look a little more about communication, and I'm sure this is a conversation you've had with many of your clients. But how do you recommend so? If women at this stage of their careers, how do they effectively communicate their value and experience in a way that resonates with younger generations and leadership teams? And I mean, you've kind of hinted at this, but if you have anything else that you kind of go to and helping women navigate this, we'd love to hear it.
Sairan Aqrawi:Yeah, I mean, I face that in both places, in my house and at work. I mean, effective communication is such a crucial. Communication is very important. I do it at home with two kids. 123, 121, new generation, all apps, all AI. Everything's quick, quick, quick, right. Most of the stuff that I learned in Instagram I learned it from my daughter when she was 18 or 19.
Sairan Aqrawi:So imagine, and when it's come as you as a midlife leader, you can make that bridge between you and the new generation by a couple of things. First of all, not judging them because they are younger. They come with a lot of intelligence. Also, they bring brilliant ideas. So you kind of want to build that bridge about adopting. Adoption is very important.
Sairan Aqrawi:It's like I always ask my daughter what is the new things you are doing? Please teach me a little bit. Because they are in technology wise, they are ahead of us. But by us adding value to them, not to judge them, we can just come to say the new generation oh, I done all of that by hand. Now we're doing it in an app that's dumb. Don't, don't use those labels, because they're gonna ship back. They're not gonna like communication with you. You have to say, oh, my god, oh, there is an app for that, oh, there is a uh, microsoft tools, oh, there's an excel sheet. Can you teach me that so kind of like building that appreciation and acknowledgement to them? And also what is effect a lot especially I do it at home and at work storytelling. Storytelling is such a powerful tool, dr Leah, because you're kind of sharing your insight with them.
Sairan Aqrawi:By your previous experience. You said, oh my God, you remind me about myself when I was in college. I face the same thing, but you know what's worked for me. You know, the first time someone asked me to do this kind of storytelling. You add a little bit of fun, you add a little bit of sense of humor. And what do they say? Fact tells story self. Right, the fact tells story self because the story, even when you give a speech and when you associate story with it, people will still remember that story from you.
Dr. Leah OH:Mm, hmm, yeah, I really like that. I'm thinking too, you're kind of tying in some of that reverse mentoring, where it becomes mutually beneficial across the generations, where if they're helping you with an app and then you're seeing them, you can give them some political insight that they likely are unaware of, or other elements that have come with your experiences that they haven't yet kind of grown on their own.
Sairan Aqrawi:Yes, yes, yeah, reverse mentorship. It reminds me about I think it was an article written by Robert Tureen. He's a famous author, american author. He talked about people ask him what is the road for success? I think one line. I hope I'm putting it right. He said there is no shortcut to succeed, but one of the shortcuts he can say it's one of them is mentorship. You need a mentor, you need a mentor, you need a coach.
Sairan Aqrawi:And a lot of people, dr Leah, come to you and said, oh, mentorship is accessory, coach is an accessory. I'm here to tell you is not? I'm a certified ACC. I have clients. I have my own coach which I pay double than what client pay me, because I want to scale my game. I don't want to stay in the same level as a coach. I want you, when you see me in five years, said wow, she's in different level, so I'm not going to be in that different level if I don't have a coach myself. So mentorship, it's so essential and it's a two-way street, like when I mentor younger engineers. Like when I mentor younger engineers who said I don't learn from them. I do, I do learn from them. I passed them 25 years, so they're picking up a lot of things that didn't come across me as a professional engineer. So mentoring it's very important, it's not an accessory.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, and Seiran, I think I can say with complete confidence that you'll be leveled up before five years, thank you, thank you, dr. Yes, and say, ron, I think I can say with complete confidence that you'll be leveled up before five years, thank you, thank you, dr.
Sairan Aqrawi:Yes.
Dr. Leah OH:So let's think about shifting priorities because we know that for many women, especially during midlife, there might be a shift in a desire for more fulfilling work. So with this kind of question it's a multi-part one, but just thinking about how do we either articulate this if we think our current employer, if there's some capacity for us to take on different projects, and if that's not the case, if we find ourselves kind of looking at a new career path at this point in life, what strategies do you have?
Sairan Aqrawi:Very good question. And that's go back to the niche I have in my business finding your hidden gem or hidden talent.
Sairan Aqrawi:Here I am engineer with technology skills doing engineering and look at my business have nothing to do with technology, it's to emotional intelligence. So, basically, what I did, I arranged marriage between IQ and EQ. So my IQ is all. I have to be precise and concise. I have to solve the equation with no mistake, because every number is going to make a fatal problem right. I'm designing building bridges or sanitary sewer or water service. These are all precise and concise calculation. When it's come to my business, I shift my mind. So it's like IQ. I left the IQ at the day job and I deal with the EQ because when I do coaching and mentorship, I put all my soul and energy in it, because that's exactly what is my hidden gem, that's exactly what I enjoy.
Sairan Aqrawi:And my message to your audience or any woman in midlife, or leadership you don't have to keep what doesn't add joy to your life. And I'll give you an example. You might have client PhD degree. She's teaching elite, you know Ivy League, making a lot of money. But she comes to me and I look at her LinkedIn, amazing. Oh my God, all the paper, all the podcasts, all the interviews she does. But she comes not happy, and when you ask her she said I have a PhD degree. I have wonderful kids. They are both well-behaved, great degree and, you know, well-established. My husband is wonderful. I have a $5 million house, financially very comfortable. Then why you are here and they tell you I feel numb. It's like numb, going to work every day, coming home fixed dinner, sleep, next day, the same thing.
Sairan Aqrawi:So there is lack of joy and there is also you feel like their soul is sad, their energy sleeps, it's like they're only numb and the soul is dead Because all they are doing they're just going to work, pick up the paycheck and come home. And my advice to go back to your question, dr Leah no way I'll come to that client and say, with your PhD degree, teaching school, you like painting, just paint. That's not ideal right and that's not logic. First of all, she's established. She studied so many years, she paid all those bills, she established a quality life for her family. She's not going to quit all of that because her hidden gem is painting. No, what I'm asking that client is celebrate what you have If you love to paint. You're doing things by your hand knitting, you're writing, you're speaking, you're fixing things by hand. There is a lot of guys fix, make table.
Sairan Aqrawi:You see their pieces like antique, right. And if you have that skill, make it a side heaven or haven. I call my business. I don't call my business side hustle. There is no hustle in my side business. My side business is side heaven or haven Because when I go there I don't feel a time and effort. I love it, I'm just deep, deep dive inside like I'm swimming in the swimming pool right.
Sairan Aqrawi:So, for those women who see that their job is not really fulfilling them with joy. I tell them midlife is the time, Because midlife is the perfect time to align your work with a purpose. If you don't align your work with purpose, there is no joy.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, I really love that and I think too I was listening and thinking about especially in the US we have this live-to-work mentality and it sounds like it's helpful to flip it to the work-to-live Like. I work just to support this life, but recognizing that's one small part of a much fuller life.
Sairan Aqrawi:Life is so full of a much fuller life. Life is so full and if midlife women know how much left you'd rather to have that alignment and discovery in your 50 that you never have it and you die and you keep saying, oh, I wish if I, I wish if I. That's so painful, but if you get that alignment and realization when you are 50, you're going to have 20 years more quality living on your dream and your side business, nothing being wasted. There is nothing wrong that you went to school for law or for IT or for medical for 25 years.
Sairan Aqrawi:Nobody said that was wrong. But when you hit your midlife, this is your time to rebirth. This is your time to shine and vivid color Life is still on. You don't have just to be an employee. You can create, you can add value, you can leave an impact.
Dr. Leah OH:Oh, it's so powerful. So let's think about networking now. And so we know there's this long storied history that's telling us how important networking is, and we know it's important, we have the research to support that, but we also know it can be very awkward, especially for introverts. So I'm wondering what your top tips are for midlife women who are either seeking to build this network, if they haven't yet, or maintain it.
Sairan Aqrawi:Seeking to build this network if they haven't yet or maintain it. I love the question. So networking is essential, just like communication. I mean. When I say networking, people think, oh, just attend anything you've been invited to. Oh, you're invited to a women empowerment, you're invited to educational event at the university, which is fine At the beginning. If you are just starting this and you want to master networking, there is nothing wrong to attend to a couple of those in the beginning, just to test the water, to see what do you really, what do you align to, what is your energy falling into?
Sairan Aqrawi:My advice is if you've been invited, you respect the person who invite you, thank them. So thank you for inviting me. But if you enter that room and you, you will feel it there is no mutual energy exchange between you and the subject. It's all about politics, it's all about religion. You are and you you are professional. You don't need to be in places that doesn't belong to you. And it's not rude to tell the person who invited you to that religion or politics, whatever network, and say thank you so much. I really enjoy, you know, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, but I'm afraid I have to leave because I have another commitment. So you attended just for respect, but for next time, you know now that platform is all about those two subjects, so you can avoid it, right? So any network, dr Leah, if you feel doesn't add value to you and you don't add value to it, don't go, because it's a two-way street, right?
Sairan Aqrawi:So if I go to a network, let's say, you invite me to STEM. There's a lot of younger engineers there. I'm like, oh, Dr Leah, this is beautiful. It reminds me about me when I was young and all of that. I come to that STEM and I start talking with those younger engineers. Oh, my God, oh, you're doing this, You're going to do master. Oh, you know Dr Leah too. Yes, she invited me.
Sairan Aqrawi:So there is like a communication back and forth and I add value to that younger girl because I'm mentoring her, I'm telling her what's really worth, what's come after her study as a master engineer, what's real life in engineering. So I'm adding value and there is a mutual communication, that's. I can go back again If you invite me next year for the same STEM event. I'm going to come because I see that energy exchange right and networking to me. I have a strong belief it should not be only about you doing transaction and check, check, check. Oh, I know Dr Leah, she's going to make me appear in her podcast. I know Dr who is. It doesn't work like that. It should be more about building rapport and also having deep conversation, Because when I come to this network, I need to learn something from you.
Dr. Leah OH:If.
Sairan Aqrawi:I'm just here to have a crowd and having the free lunch or dinner. What is that? You don't want to kill your time this way. You want to really utilize your time. You are in midlife Time is gold right. You want to really utilize that time in a way that's adding value to others and add value to yourself.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, I really love that. I've never thought about networking as so reciprocal. It kind of felt more like a to-do, and I think, too, that idea of shifting the focus to something more concrete, like building rapport and making it about depth rather than shaking every hand in the room, is a very, very helpful one.
Sairan Aqrawi:Yes, yes, definitely, definitely. You don't need to be liked and clapped every time you appear anywhere. It's not about you, that's attention syndrome. We all have that ego After certain years.
Sairan Aqrawi:I am whoever Look at my LinkedIn, who cares? Right? There's a lot of important people that are very humble and they appear on those and you never know. They are millionaires or they are entrepreneurs or they are philanthropists. They do a lot of great things. They never show it this way, but if you feel you don't belong, just leave in a dominant and diplomatic way, yeah.
Dr. Leah OH:Very helpful. So, thinking about syndromes, let's think about imposter syndrome, and this is one we know we can experience it at any point in our career and I know, as a leadership communication scholar, I have a lot of women who say this really came up when I got that manager role or that director role. So, sivran, how do you help women combat that self-doubt and learn to communicate their accomplishments, their abilities, with confidence?
Sairan Aqrawi:Yes. So the imposter syndrome, it's just like the obstacle and the challenges we talk about. I will not only me. No one can come to you and say, oh, there is a manual, there is a book. You follow one, two, three and the imposter syndrome will go away Again. Not, those things doesn't go away. You just learn how to handle them in a better way. Right, I can't come because I'm I have confidence. I said I have confidence I can speak tomorrow for our audience 50,000. And I never spoke before.
Sairan Aqrawi:You will still be nervous to be, to be in that stage. You still be be nervous. You're still going to stay nervous before any podcast. You're still going to be nervous for your next promotion, next interview, the the way how I handle that, have handled that nervousness. I make it kind of like excitement, like when last week one of my clients she said oh, I see you, you speaking at Richmond for the Women's Summit. Are you nervous? I said, in reality I am, but I'm not going to say it. I'm going to say I'm excited. So again, I'm tweaking the word. Right, that's number one. Number two for the emerging leader, or younger girls who want to be supervisor, manager and leader at your job.
Sairan Aqrawi:I always tell them don't seek that perfectionist. No one is perfect, right. But if you accomplish a win or a small achievement, have like a log, say, oh, within six months I learned three software. That's a win. So little by little your imposter syndrome go away because you see, like in January you were all scared about those three software, but by June you are mastering those three software. Now you're teaching others that software.
Sairan Aqrawi:So that's imposter syndrome will sleep because I was scared. Now it's down because I learned how to do it. So basically, the antidote for that syndrome is action. It's only action, because I'm still scared If you keep telling me say, ron, I wish, if you come to my podcast and I keep telling Dr Leah, I'm so scared, oh my God, I'm intimidated, I'm not going to be fit for your podcast. But if I take action, if I show up with all the flaws and all the shortening that I have, my accent or whatever, I will not match your knowledge here, but just by me showing up and adding value to your podcast, my imposter syndrome went away because I took action. That's the only way you can get rid of it.
Dr. Leah OH:And when you were just saying that, I love that idea of action as the answer, Because with imposter syndrome we feel stuck, right, it can feel like a paralysis and it's easy to remain stuck. But it's that one step, that little bit of action, like you said, the goal setting in January and saying, oh wow, I did this. I was so afraid of these softwares and now I'm teaching others.
Sairan Aqrawi:Yes, you take the move. I think Tony Robinson said it in one of his interviews. He said when you feel stuck, like you said, Dr Leah, it's the best thing to do is to stand up and just move your body. It's like you interrupt, you disrupt the thinking, you disrupt the chain. So you stand up and you move your hands and your legs. And he's right, Because when you sit and you're comfortable, he said oh my God, I can't do this, I'm really stuck. But if you stand up and you do something, you kind of like disrupt the thinking, right, the negative thinking. You're going to get out of that cycle.
Dr. Leah OH:Disrupt the thinking right, the negative thinking. You're going to get out of that cycle? Yeah, exactly. And so I want to talk about mentorship again, and I know we've already touched on this that I think we can't underestimate how much this means, you know, at any point in our career. But I think, as you've been saying, there's a special function it can play for a midlife woman in empowering them. So can you give us a little more insight or anything you haven't already had the chance to add about kind of the role of mentorship for an empowering midlife women, both as the mentor but also as a mentee?
Sairan Aqrawi:Yes, I don't know if you looked at my LinkedIn page that the platform or the area that I mentor at not necessarily that old technology, although that's my background. So I did mentor at Women in Technology. I mentor at Women in Engineering at George Washington University. I mentor at ACEC. They are all engineers. But I also try to mentor some younger women who are just seeking clarity, Because we as women, even when we are younger age, we always have that belief.
Sairan Aqrawi:We have to figure it out all by theory. Why? Who said that? Is there a book saying that oh, I got married, I have to have babies right away, I have to get my master right away, I have to buy a house my American dream. I have my bills off? Who said there is no manual and rules telling you 31 is the best age or 32 is the best age to doing your master or having a baby. You go with the flow and you go with what's best for you. So that's where mentorship comes the flow and you go with what's best for you. So that's where mentorship comes. Very essential and it's very handy, Because when you have a mentor, it's a guidance. I'm not going to tell the younger engineer oh, I did it this way. You should do it my way. That's not mentorship, right? Mentorship is like I'm holding the flashlight. I'm just going to say, hey, this is what you're doing. I'm holding the flashlight, it's adding more light to the path.
Sairan Aqrawi:It's adding more light and a guidance. And if that lady challenged me, she's 23 and I'm in my 50s she said I don't think. So I said then I don't think you are a good fit as a mentee because I'm not telling you what to do. I am guiding you to the right path, right? So it's up to you. It's all inner work, if you want to take it in and do your homework.
Sairan Aqrawi:Great. If you are here to kind of like challenging who's ahead of you 25 years, that's a different story. We are competing here, right, but I have to be honest with you, dr Leah. Among all the mentorship I did, I benefit a lot in both ways. I benefit when I've been mentored and I benefit when I was mentoring others and what I did after I shut down my old platform in September 2023, I changed my niche from transition expert to a business strategist.
Sairan Aqrawi:I had women mentor before and they were amazing, amazing women mentor Women, women to women. They were nice to me. Oh my God say Ron, you change a lot. We see you're scaling up here. You are better than five years ago.
Sairan Aqrawi:I say you know what? This time I'm going to have a man mentoring me, and a man has nothing to do with engineering. So I had one of those mentors, amel. He was, I think, late 70 and retired pilot. Look at him. There is no relation between me and him, right, but his first perspective came out to me so fresh and challenging because he was a military guy, pilot and all orders and here I am the lady with equation, right, and he was a male. He was looking at other things that other women mentors didn't see, things that other women mentors didn't see.
Sairan Aqrawi:So I benefit from both. I benefit from both perspective because they add certain things and actually they, they uh, point out things that I never thought about and never thought about. I have one of the mentor, um, from Illinois. She was telling me oh, my God, you do have sense of humor, I would use it more. And I was like, okay, I'm an engineer, I have to look all bold and rigid and all serious, and I don't. I literally don't blink at the staff meeting, like if I'm with other engineers I don't blink because I look.
Sairan Aqrawi:So you know, like oh in her, you know in her uh space and she know what she's talking about. She said no, say you don't have to. We have to add a little bit flavors, like salt to the food. You have sense of humor, just use it. So mentorship it's essential in both ways. If you are mentoring or you've been, mentored and I love to.
Dr. Leah OH:There's, I think, a certain maturity that someone has to have when they are recognizing that there's something to learn from everyone and not saying you're the one mentor I need or you're in this category that I need, but recognizing, you know, and there might be points in our life when we need someone who's just in one certain niche or certain identity markers. But I think too, when you kind of pull that curtain back and recognize we are so different. But that's what I really need now. I need, you know, someone to provide insight in areas that I don't see or I don't know.
Sairan Aqrawi:You said we are so different. It reminds me about something. It's so true, even a relationship. You see, you are a friend, close friend, with someone totally different than you. They are totally different in everything. And that's exactly when I met my husband. He is 100% different than me in everything.
Dr. Leah OH:Thanks God, he's not an engineer.
Sairan Aqrawi:I thank God every day. He's not an engineer, because two engineers in the house it's a disaster. But he's different than me in everything His approach. Literally, dr Leah, if we go to a furniture store and we see two tables, only two tables, he's going to like the one that I don't like. It's totally different, but we become such a good partner and a wife and husband because all our approach is differently, and and and.
Sairan Aqrawi:going back to that mentorship part also, I want to add one more things, yeah, even people, when they they come across to you being I'm saying I'm not going to use rude word- I'm going to say unprofessional, and they point something in you in your LinkedIn or a comment in Instagram or Facebook or whatever and doesn't come across professional, you benefit even from that Because they are pointing to something. You just brush it away. You didn't give much value, but it's getting your enemy's attention.
Sairan Aqrawi:So you're like hmm, let me fix that so it will not be a point of attack next time. So actually your enemies are doing you a favor by mentioning it because they are really viewing you vetting your comments in a way, in a very critical way, said hmm, I thought this is not major, but I'm going to look into it. So next time they have no other short you know short area to point at. So everybody giving you a comment is beneficial.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, I was just thinking about maturity and the emotional intelligence, too that it takes to be able to interpret that as a gift in some ways, even though it does not feel like a gift moment recognizing it's a place to grow from.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, yeah, definitely, definitely, yep. So I have two final questions for you, seiran, and they're connected. So the way we end all episodes of the Communicative Leader is, with this, really pragmatic. It can be leadership, communication, tip, advice challenge. So the first part it is for our title leaders out there, our managers, our directors, our supervisors, and then the second part is kind of advice for all employees across all ranks for all employees, across all ranks.
Sairan Aqrawi:Okay, so the first one. What is my advice?
Dr. Leah OH:to title leaders or managers.
Sairan Aqrawi:Which is a big difference between a leader and a manager.
Dr. Leah OH:Managers making the projects. That's true.
Sairan Aqrawi:Finish leader, you have to be a role model. You cannot be a leader if you are not a role model. You cannot call yourself an effective leader if you are not doing all the ethics aspect of it. So if you want your team to follow you, and by preaching, telling them you did do it, you have to do this. I done it this way, do it my way or the highway. That's a manager, that's not a leader. So I feel like most of the leader with all respect, I, I some, some of them when I meet them during engineering meetings. Their LinkedIn profile is amazing Every credential you think about in engineering, every degree, every certification but, man, it's so difficult to deal with them because they are not active listeners.
Sairan Aqrawi:They come to this meeting, um, with their fancy linkedin title he's a chief safety officer, director, chief engineer, whatever it is and he thinks he can just roll over all the style without listening. Basically, he is not giving space to the audience, he just see himself. He come to the table and he said I'm a leader, I'm going to make decision right. There is no active listening, there is no communication skills. So I feel leaders they need to listen more.
Sairan Aqrawi:And if they are very impactful really and they are making decisions. They don't have to go all the time at the beginning. They don't need to give us that speech about how great they are, how they closed these projects before they are genius. They've been skipped by Elon Musk. They can be partnered with Elon Musk or whatever. Fine, we saw your LinkedIn. Guess what? I'm not impressed.
Sairan Aqrawi:First of all, you need to listen to the audience. You need to listen to the younger engineers. You need to give a space and make your presence welcoming so people can approach you for ideas, for motivation, for, for, for, for things that really, uh, make a shortcut at work, benefit the whole team. So when you create that welcoming environment, it's like a family, same thing like parenting. I feel like a leader is a good parent because if I am not giving my kids that space to come to me and telling me what's happened in their day they have certain challenges in the college I'm not bringing them to my circle, my trust you know, circle of trust, right. Same thing with leaders. For title leaders, they need to listen more and make an environment, space, environment. Include everyone and don't judge younger, emerging leaders because they have a lot to offer. Just give them a chance and let them shine. Let them shine. The second part. What did you say? Advice to all.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, so all employees across all ranks, all industries, so the folks who aren't in a titled leadership position, what do you wish they knew or were working on or thoughtful of?
Sairan Aqrawi:Yeah, that's a very important question For anyone who's hearing us in this podcast and who's trying to make an impact or a difference. First of all, they need to know it's all on them, it's an inside job. Don't blame the society, don't blame the election. Don't blame the news. Don't blame the election. Don't blame the news. Don't blame anyone. It's you. This is you versus you, right? It's?
Dr. Leah OH:not versus anybody else, it's an inside job and for younger generation.
Sairan Aqrawi:I feel that they always bring up the word of confidence I'm not confident to apply for a manager, I'm not confident to be a leader, I'm not confident to be a supervisor. I always tell them the same answer you will never, ever gain that confidence if you are not competent. You have to gain the skills. When we say confidence, action breeds confidence. Always when you take action in your skills, it breeds your confidence and builds your confidence. Always when you take action in your skills, it breeds your confidence and build your confidence. So when you become confident, I go back to the example I said if I'm January, you're hiring me and you're giving me three software that I'm scared to death to learn them. But if I learn them towards June and I become so master at it to teach it to others, I build my confidence by being competent.
Sairan Aqrawi:Because if I'm not competent, trust me, you go to that room. The minute you show up in that room, people see it. People see it. It's not fake it until you make it. No, it's work it until you make it. You have to work and act on it. It's action. I can fake it inside, like between me, subconscious and conscious. That's different. That's an inner voice, right. But when I enter that room and there is 50, 50 competent engineers that I'm challenging their design, I better to be done with my homework. I better to know the book. I better to know those codes for structure and steel and concrete and soil. I'm not going to show up there just because in my mid-50s and I'm a smart engineer. That doesn't work. I have to be competent because every single person in that meeting will challenge me. So by me not doing the homework and not having the facts, it's an assumption all the time. You need facts. I think Rene Brown talked about it. I heard Lyons say when you lack of data, you're making a lot of assumptions.
Dr. Leah OH:It's true, you go to those meetings, educational medicine.
Sairan Aqrawi:it doesn't matter. If you have no facts. You're making assumptions. You need the data because you back up yourself, say I am challenging you because manual 16.1 says such and such. Nobody can speak up and nobody will bother you because they know you are a woman with facts, with homework. She did her stuff, she had her bullets clear, right, I'm not challenging her. And another advice for all employees is be clear where you're heading, clarity is power, dr Leah, without clarity.
Sairan Aqrawi:I tell my client when they do complimentary 30 minutes with me. I say, please, if you are not clear, don't hire me, because I need you to be clear where you're heading. If you're hiring me to build your confidence, don't talk about losing weight in your session. That has nothing to do with the goal. Don't mix them up. You are here with clarity. You need a clear path. It's inside job. Do it now, don't wait. Anything you want to do for all the audience, do it now, before you are ready, don't wait yeah you're right because you're never ready, it's a punishment.
Sairan Aqrawi:It's a punishment. Don't take those dreams. And if with you until the grave, don't take that. If, if I wish, if I wish, no, do it now, before you are ready. That's my advice to all.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, that is so, so helpful, and I'm thinking, too, with your focus on competence. I love that because it's tangible. It's something I can actually map out a plan for, I can chart my progress, whereas I say I want to become more confident. That is this murky future, vague state that I'll never know if I've reached it.
Sairan Aqrawi:Yes, yes, definitely, definitely, yeah, yeah, it's very important and clear. And and know what you want. You have to know. Robert Greene talked about it in the Mastery book what is your life purpose, what is your life task? And in Mass, I think it's chapter one you call it life task. What is your task? Don't brush it away. You come to this world not just by making a paycheck and have a nice house and throw a Thanksgiving dinner. That's not life. That's everybody's routine, day to day.
Sairan Aqrawi:You are in this life to leave an impact and a purpose. Your purpose is different than my purpose. We complete the puzzles and we make this coexisting. We need to know what's our impact in order to leave a legacy at us.
Dr. Leah OH:So powerful. Well, sivran, thank you for sharing your time with us, for all of this wealth of information that I know is going to be really, really helpful for our leaders. So again, thank you, and I appreciate you.
Sairan Aqrawi:Thanks to you, dr Leah. I was honored to be in your platform and, for the sake of your audience and giving a gift away, I am willing to give away anyone who mentioned your name and your platform. I am willing to give away 30 minutes complimentary session. If they want to scale their LinkedIn or they want to start something in a site, if they mention your name and your platform, they will get that complimentary 30 minutes.
Dr. Leah OH:Oh, thank you. I'll be sure to link all of your information.
Sairan Aqrawi:Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you for having me. Thank you.
Dr. Leah OH:All right, my friends. That wraps up our conversation today. Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose. I'm looking forward to chatting with you again soon on the Communicative Leader.
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