The Communicative Leader
On The Communicative Leader, we're making your work life what you want it to be. Do you need years of training or special equipment? Not at all my friends. Simple, yet thoughtful changes in your communication can make great strides in displaying your leadership ability. And why the heck should you care about leadership communication? Well, communication is the yardstick others use to determine whether or not they see you as a leader. Ahhh don't be scared, I got you. We will walk through common organizational obstacles and chat about small, but meaningful communication-rooted changes you can integrate immediately. No more waiting for the workplace to become what you hope it will. Nope. You, my friends, will be empowered and equipped to make those changes. Let's have some fun! Can't get enough?
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The Communicative Leader
The Charismatic Edge: Mastering the Science of Influence – A Conversation with Richard Reid
What if the secret to commanding a room isn't what you think? When Richard Reid found himself sharing a tent in Patagonia with a Welsh psychiatrist, he couldn't have imagined how that chance encounter would transform his understanding of human connection and leadership presence.
Richard, an organizational psychologist and body language expert with 20+ years of experience coaching high-profile individuals, dismantles the most persistent myths about charisma. Forget the jazz hands and rehearsed speeches—true charisma begins with managing your internal world, creating bandwidth to genuinely connect with others.
As Richard explains, charisma isn't reserved for extroverts or those born with a commanding presence. It's a skill anyone can develop, shaped by four distinct styles: authoritative, warmth, focused, and visionary. The most effective leaders move fluidly between these styles depending on what each situation demands.
In our digital landscape, connection has become increasingly transactional. Richard offers practical strategies to counter this trend—from slowing conversations down to strategic uses of silence that create space for deeper insights. His approaches to breathing, body language, and intentional transitions between meetings provide immediately applicable tools for enhancing presence both virtually and in person.
Perhaps most surprisingly, Richard reveals how vulnerability enhances rather than diminishes charismatic leadership. By sharing challenges authentically and creating environments where others feel seen and validated, leaders build deeper trust and inspire genuine connection.
Whether you're leading a team or looking to enhance your personal influence, Richard's science-backed techniques offer a refreshing alternative to one-size-fits-all communication advice. From the 4-4-6 breathing method to questioning your autopilot behaviors, these small but powerful shifts can transform your presence and impact on others.
Ready to discover your authentic charismatic edge? Listen now and learn how to create meaningful connections that inspire trust, foster innovation, and elevate your leadership presence.
Hey leader! Thanks for listening. For more leadership communication tips, check out https://www.thecommunicativeleader.com/
Welcome to another episode of the Communicative Leader. I'm your host, Dr Leah OH, and today we have the pleasure of speaking with Richard Reid, a leading organizational psychologist, executive coach and body language expert. In this episode, the Charismatic Edge Mastering the Science of Influence, we're going to explore the intricate relationship between charisma and effective leadership communication between charisma and effective leadership communication. With over 20 years of experience coaching CEOs, entrepreneurs, public figures, richard has become a sought-after expert on mastering presence and influence. His practical, science-backed approach to charisma has been featured in publications like the BBC, the Times and Forbes, making this complex realm really accessible to everyone. Currently touring the UK with his Charisma Masterclass, richard is helping professionals re-find their impact and their presence. In today's conversation, we're going to discuss the evolution of communication in our digital landscape, including how to project charisma and make a memorable impression during virtual interactions. As Richard shares insights on body language, authenticity and the unique challenges faced by leaders, you're going to leave equipped with some valuable tools to enhance your communication skills. So let's unlock the secrets to charisma and influence with Richard Reed.
Dr. Leah OH:Hello and welcome to the Communicative Leader hosted by me, Dr Leah Omilion Hodges. My friends call me Dr O. I'm a professor of communication and a leadership communication expert. On the Communicative Leader we're working to make your work life what you want it to be. Communicative leader we're working to make your work life what you want it to be. Richard, welcome, we are so excited to have you on the Communicative Leader and, before we dive into this really interesting conversation, I was hoping you could share a little bit about your journey. So you are an organizational psychologist, you're a leadership coach, an organizational consultant. Can you give us that background?
Dr. Richard Reid:Yeah, first of all, thank you for having me on the show. Really good to be here. It tells my background. It's quite a labyrinthine way that I've arrived where I have.
Dr. Richard Reid:So I started out working as a business consultant within the IT sector so something very, very different from what I do today and I absolutely hated it. I enjoyed the human interaction, but I absolutely hated the technical side of it, and what I tended to end up doing was almost translated between the techies and the average person. And that's where I kind of got the value from it. And I got to the point where I thought, right, I don't want to do this, I want to do something different. And I took a year point where I thought, right, I don't want to do this, I want to do something different.
Dr. Richard Reid:And I took a year out and I went traveling around the world and I ended up sharing a tent in Patagonia with a psychiatrist from Wales it's kind of a really odd story and we started exchanging stories. He was on a bit of a journey, and so was I, and he said have you ever thought about being a psychotherapist? He told me more about it and I sort of got hooked in. And when I got back to the uk, that's what I started to do. I retrained as a psychotherapist whilst working as a business consultant to work in evenings studying um, you know, it's quite, quite difficult for a while, but it was definitely worth it.
Dr. Richard Reid:So I ended up working as a psychotherapist in an area of london called mayfair and there's lots of sort of hedge funds and quite affluent people there, so working with them on a variety of different things. But they would start to see the value of what I was doing with them and started to introduce me to their businesses and I realized there were lots of transferable skills and what I found was some of the skills actually using different terminologies to explain the same principles. When you made it less about sort of mental health, a lot of these people let their barriers down. They opened up and actually indirectly you were having mental health conversations with some of them anyway, but it was really coming at it from a business perspective.
Dr. Richard Reid:So, that's really how this area sort of grew. And then I got involved in working in trauma work, did a lot of work with City London Police, with the Met Police, with Transport for London, and really started to hone my skills in that area. But essentially, you know, I do lots of different things, but they're all really about helping individuals, helping organizations to maximize their potential. So even though they seem quite disparate things that they do have a common thread between them yeah, yeah, and I love, I love these stories.
Dr. Leah OH:I work. You know my day job, I'm a professor. I work with. So, even though they've seen quite disparate things, that they do have a common thread between them. Yeah, yeah, and I love these stories. I work you know my day job, I'm a professor. I work with a lot of young adults and there's so much pressure they feel I've got to pick this one thing and it's got to be perfect. I'm like, nope, you're going to be on a roller coaster and you're not going to know where it goes, but when you look back it makes sense, when you kind of tie those threads together.
Dr. Richard Reid:Absolutely All these things that you do in life.
Dr. Leah OH:they all come together at some point, I find.
Dr. Richard Reid:You might not always see the value or the relevance at the time, but pretty much everything I've done has served me well in some form or another.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, excellent. So, Richard, we know that you are an expert in charisma. And this first question nothing about some misconceptions. So you know that you have extensive experience working with high profile individuals. And what is the single most common misconception? You continue to hear about charisma.
Dr. Richard Reid:Well, a couple of things, but I think the first one is that charisma is something you're either born with or you're not born with it, and I think certainly it's fair to say that some people naturally exude charisma more than others.
Dr. Richard Reid:But, my belief is that all of us can move further along that continuum if it's something that we want to achieve and there are skills that we can learn to do that. And I think it's about doing that in an authentic way. And I think you only have to look at a lot of politicians to see that they're almost too polished and it's inauthentic. It's a kind of one size fits all approach, and that's not what I'm about. It's really about recognizing your uniqueness and finding the confidence to celebrate that in a meaningful way. But it starts with internal work. So it's not about, you know, put your hands here and have eye contact in this particular way. It starts with managing your internal world.
Dr. Richard Reid:when you manage your internal world, then your body naturally manifests a representation of that, but also, you've got spare capacity to be flexible in the moment so you're not over consumed by your own emotions. You've got enough spare capacity to recognize the dynamics that are at play in a conversation so you can adapt and register what people need from you Stop objectifying people and meet them where they are, and that's really what's at the heart of all of this?
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, yes, I love that. It reminds me of when people are like. You know, leaders are born, not made. I'm like nope, throw that out. That is not the case. We learn it. It's a muscle right. The more that we practice, the stronger that it gets. So I'm really excited to learn more of this with charisma. And so, thinking of the science of charisma, can you kind of give us this background and what are some of the specific psychological principles, that kind of underpin or the foundation of charisma?
Dr. Richard Reid:So, as I said, a big part of it is about managing your internal world, and I think there are obviously lots of different models for how the brain works.
Dr. Richard Reid:The one I particularly like is the Daniel Kahneman model which you probably heard of system one and system two and I think a lot of the time we're too heavily in system system one, and I think society also uh naturally steers us towards being in system one because there's so many demands on our time. Technology makes us very sort of uh impulse driven as well. It's that instant gratification, so we have to work really hard to push back on that, and as much as what what I do with people is about celebrating their uniqueness. It's also about challenging them and getting them to think about why am I doing these things in a particular way? Am I doing that because I've chosen it?
Dr. Richard Reid:and because it best serves the situation? Or am I doing it because it's driven by impulse? And it's the first thing that occurred to me. And you know we need system one. I don't want to sort of say that system one is a bad thing.
Dr. Leah OH:It absolutely isn't.
Dr. Richard Reid:But one. I don't want to sort of say that system one is a bad thing. It absolutely isn't, but we're too heavily reliant upon it and we sleep, walk through life and then we wonder why sometimes situations work out well for us and other times they don't.
Dr. Leah OH:It's because we're not adapting, we're objectifying situations, we're objectifying people yeah, so um, with that, can you talk to us a little bit more about, like, when you're thinking about objectifying a situation or a person? What does that look like, what are we kind of thinking and what cues are we missing?
Dr. Richard Reid:what we want to say next.
Dr. Richard Reid:We're thinking about what we want to get out of the situation where we want to steer it and a lot of the time we end up getting what we wish for but we miss so much more. In other words, we're not creating something new in that conversation. But actually, if we leave an element of the unknown and we allow things to some degree to go where they naturally need to go, we learn more about other people, we learn more about ourselves and we're more likely to reach alignment, and it's and it's seeing people as they are and and so often we're transactional we'll come away for a conversation, we'll know the facts of what's been said, but we don't understand the emotions that sit beneath it. Sometimes, when the people we're talking to are saying what they're saying, they're not connecting with the emotions that sit beneath what they say.
Dr. Richard Reid:So part of being charismatic is having the spare bandwidth in the conversation. What do they mean when they say that? What's driving that and even sometimes asking those questions? What does that mean to you? What?
Dr. Leah OH:is that like, yeah, yeah, that's so helpful. And I like that idea of the spare bandwidth because you're right, when we don't have any extra to give, then it's all surface level. It's like, okay, let's follow this script that we're all so used to, and then we'll check've already hinted at. So we know that many people associate charisma with this innate talent, something that we're born with and, like you said, I mean we can even notice from childhood on, some just kind of tend to shine a little bit more in these areas than others. But how much in your experience, in your work, how much of this is inherent and how much of it is it? You know, how do we start cultivating more if we realize this isn't our natural kind of communication style?
Dr. Richard Reid:So I think it's fair to say a lot of it is inherent. But equally, as a society, we place great emphasis on people who are extroverts, and some extroverts absolutely are charismatic, but some, again, they objectify people, they're there and they entertain people, but it's to make them feel good, it's not about connection, and one of the things I try to impart to people is that charisma comes in lots of shapes and sizes.
Dr. Richard Reid:So even if you're quite shy and retiring, there are variations of charisma that play to those strengths. So you know, if you're extremely introverted, it might be that your charisma comes out more when you're in one-to-one situations, and that is perfectly valid. I think. A lot of time people discount themselves because they're comparing themselves to those sort of really loud, loud people. You know, I've certainly seen it in situations I can think of a, an interview on tv in the uk and then there was tom tom jones, the the singer, and will smith and they were talking. It was all sort of friendly banter, but will smith's persona was so large you could see somebody like Tom Jones, who you'd imagine being quite confident, physically shrinking because there was no space for him in the conversation.
Dr. Richard Reid:And this is what happens. We've got to meet people where they are and give them space to shine and to grow.
Dr. Leah OH:Yep, yep. That's a really great example because, you're right, you can see this physical transformation. But on the beautiful side, when someone is feeling really good, that's a really great example because, you're right, you can see this physical transformation. But on the beautiful side, when someone is feeling really good, you can see that their shoulders open up and the smile, like we can see it both ways.
Dr. Richard Reid:And you're right, if we're not looking for that, then it's easy to miss. Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's really important because for me, charisma is not just about making yourself feel good and look good it's about creating a ripple effect in the world, maybe that sort of uh sounds too grand, but it's. It's about making other people feel good about themselves as well, but not in an inauthentic yeah um, disingenuous way.
Dr. Leah OH:It's about getting, getting them to feel validated, getting them to feel seen yeah, that's what I was just thinking like the gift of letting others know that you see them.
Dr. Richard Reid:Exactly.
Dr. Leah OH:So let's think about some practical approaches now. So we know that charisma is science-backed. Can you give us a couple actionable strategies or exercises I mean, this can even be like just dipping a toe for some of ours who are more introverted whatever you think is best, but how can our listeners start implementing you know, some of these practices today to start to enhance their influence or their presence?
Dr. Richard Reid:I think the first thing is you can have all the strategies in the world, but if you don't know when to apply them, it's going to be very hit and miss.
Dr. Richard Reid:I think, for me, the first thing is about building your self-awareness, and so often you think how fast-paced life is, and in business people are now on Zoom all the time, so you go from one meeting straight to the next.
Dr. Richard Reid:You don't have that break to walk down the corridor. All these things lend themselves to all system one, and what that means is we have less time and inclination to register the emotions that we're carrying. And so for me, the first thing is taking stock, even if you've only got 30 seconds transition between two different meetings, registering how you are feeling in that moment. So it might be something that's just happened in that previous meeting you need to go back and reflect on later, or it might be simply thinking right, I'm feeling quite um stressed from that last meeting and actually is that going to be helpful for the next interaction that I'm going into? And if it's not, then it might be that you could apply some strategies or at the very least be aware of that and just just be watching for where that might manifest itself and quite often, you know, when we've got those high emotions, we speed up and that might mean there's a fraction less for the other person to to reflect or expand before we dive back in again.
Dr. Richard Reid:So yeah, so self-awareness is definitely the first step yeah, yeah, I was just making notes.
Dr. Leah OH:I like that, I'm sorry, Richard.
Dr. Leah OH:I was just thinking the 30 seconds. Well, it's something that anyone can do, Right, and we've all. Even, like you said, if I've got a one o'clock, a two o'clock, a three o'clock, 30 seconds between those meetings is enough to say, wow, that went really well. I'm or that was a dumpster fire. But I was also thinking my communication brain is saying that when I go into that next meeting to say wow, I'm a little bit rattled from the previous one. So I think there's moments to share that vulnerability and make connections. I mean certainly without oversharing, but it could be a nice way to influence that culture in a positive way.
Dr. Richard Reid:Absolutely. I'm all in favor. You know and again, this is, I think, ties in with charisma A lot of people think it's about being completely polished. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's about being authentic and showing vulnerability. And actually, you know, nobody warms to somebody who's a nice maiden. They warm to people who have got their stuff together but also have challenges in life either that they're working through or have worked through.
Dr. Richard Reid:When we can see something of ourselves in people we warm to them. So back to your point, sometimes coming into it and saying, wow, I've just had a really tough meeting. You wouldn't believe it is a great way of breaking the ice. So I definitely think there's something in that for sure, and it just normalizes things and puts other people at ease as much as it helps us. So I'm a big advocate of that.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, that's so great and I love that you've raised up to that idea of vulnerability with charisma sometimes, because the way I think that many people that knee-jerk reaction to charisma is loud, it's like jazz hands and polished. Yeah, but I love that. It's also like nope, I'm a real person and here are some things that I've overcome or what I'm dealing with, and, yeah, thank you.
Dr. Richard Reid:Yeah, I think it's a massive thing. I think you know different people will regard different people's big charismatic if you look at a lot of a lot thing. I think, you know, different people will regard different people as being charismatic, but if you look at a lot of people I would regard as charismatic. So you know, given that it's largely a US audience, if you think something like Oprah Winfrey, that is somebody with a serious backstory.
Dr. Leah OH:So they've had a lot of success, but it's been a meandering journey.
Dr. Richard Reid:And she's quite honest about it.
Dr. Leah OH:She owns it.
Dr. Richard Reid:It's been a meandering journey and she's quite honest about it. She owns it and it's not in a victim way.
Dr. Leah OH:This is what I've worked through.
Dr. Richard Reid:This is what I am working through, this is what I'm doing to work through it, and that's inspiring. It's not somebody who's just saying well, woe is me. It's somebody saying you can do this too.
Dr. Leah OH:And people want to align with people who have that dynamism to them. So it is yeah, that's so helpful Great example. Let's lean into sincerity, and this is something that you've already touched on, because you know that sometimes people will think of charisma and they think about it as being superficial or, on a darker side, even manipulative. So how do you guide your clients to develop what is authentically charismatic to them, so that then they're in a position to build trust and foster genuine connection?
Dr. Richard Reid:I think one of the big challenges for people coming from a psychotherapy background. One of the biggest challenges for people is validation, and it's not always that they've been rejected or criticized by other people. It's a lot of times the blockers that we put in front of ourselves that people won't accept these parts of me. So we never test the water to gauge that reaction. And one of the things that I do with a lot of my clients is we talk about personal brand, so most people have.
Dr. Richard Reid:You know it's not something a lot of people consciously think about, but they'll have some sense of themselves, what they're good at, what they like, what energises them, and so we do an exercise around that. But we also get in inverted commas key stakeholders in their lives to give constructive feedback on them, what they do that works well, what it is that they bring to situations that's unique. A lot of people find that both rewarding and disconcerting because they're not used to getting that kind of feedback. We don't tend to get it quite so much as adults as we do when we're kids. So all of this starts to help us to get a sense of what our brand is and your brand is almost like your North Star when you're in situations, you can use that to plot a course, and if perhaps you deviate from that, you can recognize it far quicker and come back on track.
Dr. Richard Reid:And what we then start to do is look at small experiments that you can do where you start to reveal other aspects of that brand. It's almost like graded exposure, where you put yourself out there a little bit, not too much. Yeah, you get used to the discomfort. You use the feedback both the direct feedback and the reflection that you have to inform what you do with it next. So what you're doing over a period of time is gradually revealing yourself to the world and, hopefully getting that validation, since it's okay to be you.
Dr. Richard Reid:So it might not always be that people give you positive feedback about that, but equally, maybe they don't give you negative feedback.
Dr. Leah OH:Maybe that's enough, but actually it's okay, it's no big deal yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so helpful and I was thinking in your, in your response, it's so um, it's neat because I could see all of these threads of your previous experiences kind of come through in that response and I think it shows you know, what a strength you are to everyone you work with, because you are pulling from all these different experiences and expertise to really set people up to be their best selves.
Dr. Richard Reid:That's entirely what it's about. So it's about people recognizing and celebrating their uniqueness and all of us, however accomplished we might be. It doesn't mean that we can't polish the edges of that, that we shouldn't aspire to improve in certain areas, but first and foremost, it's about recognizing where you're at, and I think the people who I regard as being most charismatic, the ones who don't hide in the crowd. They might be quirky, they might look a bit, a little bit unusual, but they're memorable yep you know it's that.
Dr. Richard Reid:It's that old adage, isn't it? What do people say about you when you're not in the room? We remember them doesn't mean we always like them, but we remember them.
Dr. Leah OH:It doesn't mean we always like them, but we remember them. Yeah, yep, so let's shift and kind of take what we've been talking about, but then think about it in this digital landscape. So I have a few questions about that. So we know that we're on a video call right now. We know that this is part of work. We know with FaceTime, people are just really communicating through screens very, very often for many different reasons. So I'm wondering how this shift, especially in our professional lives, to virtual meetings and online interactions? How has that impacted the way charisma is perceived and also expressed?
Dr. Richard Reid:I think it's interesting. I think that the risk is, with the shift to do more things online, is that we run the risk of things being transactional. So, in other words, what are we here to discuss? Okay, we've discussed it, okay, I'll see you later and you think about some traditional ways in which people would meet in the office, for instance.
Dr. Richard Reid:There'll be people who get there a little bit early. There'll be people that hover back at the end that there's natural opportunities to connect with people in a different way that put a context around things that allow people to express things that maybe they don't feel confident expressing in the group. And I think that's that's one of the big challenges with the digital age is is you don't get that, that extra added level?
Dr. Leah OH:of human interaction.
Dr. Richard Reid:So I think it's something that if we want to sort of develop our charisma, we want to be inclusive, we've got to work harder at, because those environments don't naturally lend themselves to. So one of the things you know when you're having a meeting, generally we'll block meetings out for half an hour or an hour, slow that meeting down. So if you're meeting for half an hour, have the content for 20 minutes, but have a little bit of a preamble and a slow easing out of the meeting at the end.
Dr. Richard Reid:So actually giving people an opportunity to share what's going on for them and I think it's even more important with introverts because you know, I think it's a fact the world is heavily stacked towards extroverts, rightly or wrongly. And you think about a lot of meetings. They're often sort of quick, demanding quick fire from people, and if you're an introvert.
Dr. Richard Reid:Often your natural tendency is to process internally before you put anything out there in the wider world. So actually giving people an opportunity to think in advance about things, sending an agenda for a meeting. How much time do we waste in meetings talking about things that aren't relevant, they're not connecting and they're not about the reasons that we're?
Dr. Leah OH:there for either.
Dr. Richard Reid:So, sending an agenda out before is really useful for those people Asking a question and giving those people time to reflect on it before they give the answer is really important, and just slowing things down as well, moving away from this transactional element. How many times do we ask people a question and again we think about the content of the answer, but we don't allow people to reflect on what it means to them, we don't allow ourselves time to reflect on what they mean by it? And how often do people who are put on the spot say something and actually that's not their definitive answer on something? Sometimes, if we just hold back a fraction, people will expand on that or they'll readjust what they mean. What I actually mean is this yes, but we're socialised to rush things.
Dr. Richard Reid:I've got to give you a quick answer. It's got to be the right answer straight away. So for me, those are the big things. They've always been an issue, but they've been heightened through the digital age, I think.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, you're right and you think, when we're sharing the same physical space, sometimes it's easier to pick up on those cues. When someone is, you can see their processing and there's likely more, but when you've got 15 little boxes of colleagues' faces, it's just about impossible.
Dr. Richard Reid:It is, it's really hard to gauge what's going on for it. We can't do that and be talking at the same time, so it does put a lot more demands on us, for sure.
Dr. Leah OH:So let's think about how do we make an impression then. So, if we know some of these challenges of trying to project charisma through a screen, what are some key elements? Anyone, but maybe our leaders, who are charged with kind of guiding the ship what are some things that they can focus on to make a strong impression in these virtual settings?
Dr. Richard Reid:So I think the first thing is managing your internal world, as we've already said. So what is it that you're potentially bringing into that situation? Is that helpful? Or, if it's not, thinking about what you can do differently with it? I think emotions and energy is really important. So it may well be you go into a meeting, you know the agenda, you know the content of what you want to deliver. That's fine. But actually charisma is partly about connecting with people. How we connect with people and the biggest way that we connect with people is around how we make them feel. You can have the most rational, compelling argument in the world, but if people don't emotionally buy into it, then actually they're not spurred to action that or share that with other people. So you know, it's very hard to gauge what everybody might need from you, but it's worth thinking about before you go into a meeting what the intention is. What is it that I want to generate in this?
Dr. Richard Reid:meeting, not just what do I want to tell people? Not just what do I want to tell people, so in other words, what is the energy that is going to show me in a good light, but also give people what they might need from this situation. So it might be you want people to feel excited, in which case you might think about how you use your voice.
Dr. Richard Reid:You can't see a lot of me on the screen, but you can see my face and you can see my hands. You can use those to generate energy, or it might be people are panicked, in which case you want a slower, more methodical tone. If you can see what I'm doing with my hands, I'm bringing them close together and and they're pushing down. It's bringing the energy down. So, in other words, don't worry, we've got this at the control.
Dr. Richard Reid:So these are small things that we can do and I think the other thing that I would say is really, really important it's important in any environment, but I think it's even more important when we're in the fast-paced meeting environments is slowing down and thinking about the structure of our sentences. So shorter sentences tend to register more with people and particularly when we're online, it's incredibly tiring for people in a way that it's not when we're online. It's incredibly tiring for people in a way that it's not when we're in a room with them.
Dr. Richard Reid:So we need to do things to work harder to hold and to grab their attention. So shorter sentences not only allow people to more easily follow the thread of what you're saying, but it allows you to think about how to achieve maximum impact with each of those sentences. So I one of the things I do with my clients if you look at, you know if they're doing talks or presentations we do an exercise where we we create short sentences and we think what is the impact that you want to make with this sentence? What's the key message?
Dr. Leah OH:how are you?
Dr. Richard Reid:going to use your voice, yeah, your body language, the choice of words, to bring that alive and really really emphasize what that point is. And it can even involve pausing. You know, sometimes a strategic pause can be really useful, but we don't tend to do it. We tend to rely heavily upon the words, the content, to do the work for us. And as human beings, we're essentially sophisticated animals and, yes, we understand words. But but first and foremost, we respond to energy, respond to body language, respond to sounds, all the kind of things that we're quite lazy about.
Dr. Leah OH:That become more important in a digital age where people's concentration is far less yeah, yeah, that's so, that's so, and I love the idea of helping people to recognize how many tools they have at their disposal. We haven't really thought about them as tools before, and and that can be really empowering for someone to say, oh, I can actually. I can actually try some things to see if it's getting the effect that I'm hoping for.
Dr. Richard Reid:Absolutely. You know there are umpteen things that you can do to improve your charisma. I mean the one word of caution I always use with people is. Rome wasn't built in a day.
Dr. Richard Reid:Don't try and do all these things in one day, because number one it will feel overwhelming for you, and particularly for people who already know you. They'll think who is this? I don't know this person. So you've got to do it over a period of time for you, first and foremost, to feel comfortable with it and integrate it and to socialize and normalize it with other people. So pick one or two things and focus on getting those right before you expand that to other things getting those rights before you expand that to other things.
Dr. Leah OH:So we've we've touched on body language and you've done such a beautiful job I'm really thinking about my hands now, as I'm talking a beautiful job of making us aware of how we can use body language to impact charisma, and I'm just wondering if there you know other elements of body language, some tips that you recommend, or if there are certain things that you say hey, please try to avoid that, or be mindful that this one doesn't usually translate well, yeah.
Dr. Richard Reid:Well, I think there are a few things we can do around this. I think the first thing that I would say is um, again, it's about moderating our energy and our impulse. A lot of the time we we, for example we nod too much when somebody says that we nod too much and that can suggest a lack of confidence. So I'm not suggesting you stop nodding, but think about how you do that, when you do that, because it all plays into another aspect of charisma, which is gravitas. In other words, when I do things, does it seem deliberate and purposeful and is it adding value? So I always say is it adding value? Why are you doing that? Is it adding value? So things like nodding, we can nod too much, yeah. So so we need to nod to, to show people we're listening and we agree if we agree, but refrain from doing it too much. So that's the first thing. Eye contact is useful, but again, in moderation. You can go too far the other way. You don't want to seem intense and like you're a serial killer.
Dr. Richard Reid:So absolutely look at people during key points that you're making or they're making, but sometimes just look over their shoulders. You're still making peripheral eye contact with them, but you're breaking that up a little bit. And certainly if you're bringing other body language elements into play as well, that also helps. If you're quite static and then you're doing intense eye movement, that can be disconcerting for people. So this is really important.
Dr. Richard Reid:So those are the kind of things that I would say are are the primary things that we, we should think about. But I think the other thing is and you might be familiar with this I I'm a big advocate of amy cuddy's work, and amy cuddy talks about how we hold our bodies, uh, and how that then manifests in terms of our confidence and our decision-making.
Dr. Richard Reid:So, in short, she talked about how making yourself larger increases your confidence hormones and actually, when you make yourself smaller, you get an extra burst of cortisol, which is a stress hormone, and I'm a big advocate of that, so I'm not suggesting you do a big, massive power pose in the middle of a meeting and everyone wonders what you're doing.
Dr. Richard Reid:Yeah, but you know, in the course of a conversation there's an ebb and flow, isn't it? And if you're perhaps talking about difficult topics, you might become over exaggerated, you might become on the verge of becoming aggressive or angry, or you might feel slightly carried by what's happening. So recognizing these things allows you just to adjust. Yeah, so it might be. You know, actually, I'm getting a bit of a battering in this meeting. I feel myself getting smaller. Just breathe and open your shoulders up a little bit. Sit up. You know, a lot of time we start to lean forward when we're tired or when we're lacking confidence so sitting up is another way of just um, it's a pattern interrupt.
Dr. Richard Reid:It's getting the brain to reevaluate what's going on. So those are kind of my sort of top tips.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, really, really helpful. Thank you. I know that I am a super nodder and I know that's from my time in the classroom like validating students who are really nervous and presenting classroom like validating students who are really nervous and presenting. But I do have to check myself. In other contexts, especially if I'm working with colleagues or at a professional conference, I'm like nope, nope, nope, nope, hold your head, it's enough.
Dr. Richard Reid:So yeah, and it's not that any of these things are wrong. It's becoming aware of it. Yeah, it's not that any of these things are wrong. Exactly, it's knowing why you're doing it.
Dr. Leah OH:Are you doing it? Because that's just what you always do.
Dr. Richard Reid:Are you doing it because actually it suits?
Dr. Leah OH:the environment. Yes, yeah. So this next question, richard, is about some of your coaching, and I know you've coached CEOs, entrepreneurs, public figures, and I'm just wondering, you know, how have you noticed? Does charisma differ or stay the same across these different types of leadership roles? Are there different facets of charisma that are critical in certain aspects and not so much in others? What have you found?
Dr. Richard Reid:Interesting, interesting question. Well, I think you know. Again, there are lots of different models of charisma. Again, there are lots of different models of charisma, but I like the model that's been created by Olivia Fox-Gabane. She talks about four different types of charisma. This is where I'm going to try to remember what they are. So there's authoritative charisma. There's kindness charisma focused charisma. And what's the other one? Kindness, warm, warmness. It'll come to me in a minute four anyway.
Dr. Richard Reid:Um, the, the, the, the so the main one, that um a lot of business people feel in these is authoritative, charisma, um, in other words, you know, and that's kind of the archetype or old school management way of working and and absolutely you need some of that. But you need some of these other other elements as well. Visionary visionary was the other one was thinking of. So yeah, so uh, warmth, focus, authoritative and visionary. So a lot of um ceos will say, right, I understand, I need authoritative, I understand that I need visionary um, I don't really need the other two.
Dr. Richard Reid:And I say to people, actually, yeah, there might be some that are more obvious, but actually you need to be considering all of these areas because at different times you need to bring different skills to to bear um, so it's kind of getting them to register that and and thinking about your intentions and when, certainly when you're in a one-on-one situation, sometimes you do want to be giving people your full focus.
Dr. Richard Reid:You do want people to feel that you care. It's not enough just to be the person who knows what to do and tells people what to do. And I think people's ideas and management are changing, but there is still that old school element and there is that element that says, well, I've always got to project a perfect image. I can't talk about anything that's remotely vulnerable, um, but but it's massively important because actually it sets the you know, beats the drum for the, for how the organization is. There's lots of organizations I've worked with. They talk about things like culture and wellbeing and mental health. If you are giving out mixed messages in terms of you know, this is what we're offering, but this is how I behave, people think, well, that's what I need to do if I want to get on in this organisation, and they don't avail themselves of some of these services or they suffer in silence.
Dr. Richard Reid:Worst case scenario, they think this organization is disingenuous and I don't want to be here. So there's lots of organizations who talk about these things and they have vision and mission statements, but it's often a tick box exercise and what I say to people is, if you are serious about these things, it starts at the top Model, the behaviors and the attitudes that you are purporting to other people.
Dr. Richard Reid:So some of that is about vulnerabilities, some of that is about making people feel seen, even though they're most junior people, getting to know a little bit about them. Even if you're just saying hello, when you're walking around, not seeming caught up in your own thoughts and overwhelmed by everything that's going on for you, making yourself seem accessible, even if people don't necessarily need to talk to you. If you don't seem accessible because you look burdened by your own stuff, people are just going to feel like a burden if they, if they think about coming to talk to you, so they won't. You know how often do people say my door's always open if people have got a problem yep, exactly all right.
Dr. Leah OH:So, richard, let's think about your master class. You're currently touring the uk with your charisma master class, and what are some of your biggest aha moments or common breakthroughs that you get to witness your participants experience?
Dr. Richard Reid:interesting question.
Dr. Richard Reid:The first thing that comes to mind I had a really interesting uh lady on one of my courses a while ago and, um, she was quite tall and we, we did an exercise with body language where she was standing opposite somebody and she, she, she suddenly realized that from a very early age she'd been socialized to to lower her head and their shoulders to try and fit in with everybody else who was shorter than her.
Dr. Richard Reid:And actually one of one of the beautiful things about these workshops is it's a very sort of psychologically safe environment. We do a lot of exercises to build trust between people, so actually people feel confident to offer constructive feedback and other people take it in the in the vein in which it's intended. So the lady that she was working with gently pointed out to her just pause for a moment, notice what's happening with your body right now and the look of revelation on this woman's head. You know, to anybody else it was obvious, but to her from a very early age it was about trying to fit in with the crowd. And this goes back to my point from earlier is that this is one of the things that gets in the way of people shining is the fear of standing out in the worst possible ways and sometimes owning who we are owning what we think is so important.
Dr. Richard Reid:So for me, that was one of the biggest things that I've noticed.
Dr. Leah OH:I guess.
Dr. Richard Reid:Other obvious things that come up a lot is people's um need to fill the space, so people get really uncomfortable with silence, really uncomfortable with slight pauses, and what that means is they continue to talk and they miss an opportunity for something new to be created in that space.
Dr. Richard Reid:And and you see this a lot with people across the board, but leaders as well Leaders feel like they're already as valuable as the last great insight that they've made, and I think sometimes creating space, it's a way of being more inclusive, allowing other people to reflect on things, to share things and ultimately, I think, as a leader, this is what it's about. It's about bringing people with you, actually, in an iron, well, creating people that are are even more accomplished than you are, and the way that you do that is to create the space and to to effectively effectively say it's okay for you to share, it's okay for you to share thoughts that might be different or or slightly unusual. Uh, and and and, if we can't incorporate those, we're at least respectful and acknowledge those, and that's how organizations remain innovative and it and it and it's how fresh ideas continue to grow and and if you want to be competitive, you have to bring everybody together to become more than the sum of the parts. So those are some of the big takeaways.
Dr. Leah OH:Those are really helpful insights, yeah, yeah, I was really struck by I think you're right that leaders oftentimes think their value is in all that they're projecting and adding, and certainly that is a large component of it. But you're right learning to create space and leave it open, absolutely it's the unknown when you don't speak yes, you don't. Yeah, it's scary so it's.
Dr. Richard Reid:It's a leap of faith, but the more you do it, the the the more productive it is, and I remember, you know, being a young therapist starting out thinking I, I have to know everything I need to say before I get to the session. And actually, the most productive sessions are the ones where we just see what emerges and we work with what's in the room at the time, and I think you know some of these principles of the therapy room can easily be translated to the boardroom with tremendous value.
Dr. Leah OH:Excellent. So, Richard, the last two questions for you, and this is how we end all of our episodes of the Communitive Leader, and they're connected. So the first one is advice, a challenge, a tip for our titled leaders out there, our managers, directors and higher, our titled leaders out there, our managers, directors, and hire. And then the second part is just kind of that advice, tip or challenge for employees of all ranks across all industries.
Dr. Richard Reid:Okay, interesting. So in terms of leaders, senior people, one of the common refrains is that they know they need to make changes, but they don't have the time. So there's no point in coming up with grand ideas because there isn't the time and and inevitably, human nature dictates that when you're under pressure, time or otherwise, you revert back to what you know best. So making big changes is really not practical in most cases, but what you can do is start to look at transitions. So, going back to the point from that we spoke about before, even if you've only got 30 seconds or five minutes between a meeting, how can you maximize that time? So, in other words, first of all, reflecting on what's going on for you, do you need to set the intention for the next meeting? Do you need to have a reset? There are lots of things that we can do to reset, but the most obvious thing that we we can do it's almost so obvious we don't think about it is to manage our breathing. Any situation that we're in, big or small, will have some level in some cases very low level, um, emotional charge for us, and that emotional charge then has a bearing upon how we breathe. So, getting more in touch with our breathing. Adapting our breathing is a great way of resetting the brain, to really sort of draw a line on what might have gone before, to give our full focus to what's coming next.
Dr. Richard Reid:And I took this idea of 4-4-6 breathing. So the idea is breathing in for four, holding for four and breathing out for six, and I've used it lots of times. So, for example, when I've been on television shows, they'll give you sort of 30 seconds warning during the commercial break. Right, you're on and you feel the energy go up. You know that slight anxiety, and I use things like that as I'm walking through the cameras to go into the studio and sit on the sofa, just to bring that emotion under control. It works really, really well. So that's what I would encourage leaders to do Even if you think you've got very little time spare in the day, think about those transitions.
Dr. Richard Reid:And even if all you do is manage your breathing and set your intention for the next meeting, it can make a profound difference to how things play out.
Dr. Richard Reid:So that's my challenge for leaders and senior people, for people in general, I think it's about trying to be more mindful. So, you know, it's always going to be a work in progress because of how busy life is and how humans operate. But start to ask yourself why do I do the things that I do? And actually, do I do that because I've chosen to do it, or do I do that because that's how I've always done it? And a very simple example of this is how many people come in the house after a day at work and they either turn the tv on or they put the kettle on, and they do it whether they want to watch a program or whether they want a cup of tea or coffee or not. That's autopilot.
Dr. Richard Reid:So you know, making those small changes, it's like peeling the layers of an onion the more you do it, the more you realize that you do it, and what it starts to do is it gives you more opportunity to manage your world and to manage your impact as well. Going back to the point about gravitas, gravitas is about being deliberate and purposeful, and the more that we demonstrate that we are a serious proposition actually we do things for a particular impact. The more people gravitate towards, the more people take us seriously. There's research on this, for example, in terms of people walking down the street. So years ago the Met Police in London did some research on muggings and they got before muggers to stand by the side of the street and watch people and say, well, if you were still in the line of mugging, which of these people?
Dr. Richard Reid:would you mug? Yeah, and it was interesting because they didn't just point out the small people, the frail people. It was a variety of shapes and sizes and ages, and the conclusion they came to was that they didn't choose the people who were deliberate and purposeful, because they thought they were a proposition and if they wouldn't fight back they'd at least cause a lot of difficulty. It wouldn't be straightforward, and they went for the people who were meandering, or didn't look like they knew where they were going.
Dr. Richard Reid:And the same applies in life in general. You know, hopefully nobody's going to get mugged, but you know whether it's in business, whether it's at a party people gravitate towards people who look like a proposition and they afford them more respect even before they open their mouths.
Dr. Leah OH:So have a think about that, yeah, that that is so helpful, and I keep thinking about, too, how much we do on autopilot, as you say, and that if we take the time to reflect and become more aware, then I think you're naturally going to have some more of that bandwidth you're talking about Be present, to have some space right, to just really be a full participant in your life.
Dr. Richard Reid:Absolutely. And when you're interacting with people, the more you're used to being present and mindful, the more people are going to feel valued and seen and the more you're going to pick up on those little nuances or the mismatches in in terms of what people say versus what you you notice, or or the focus and emotion that sits behind somebody's position. You know, in different walks of life we negotiate. You know you don't have to be in business to negotiate. Negotiate about all kinds of things, but people will say things. We don't necessarily understand the emotion that sits beneath it. If, if we understand that we've got more negotiation skills and ability to influence and persuade people.
Dr. Leah OH:Excellent. Well, richard, thank you for sharing your expertise with us. Your time. This has been a really fascinating conversation. I know I've gotten a lot out of it and I know our listeners will as well.
Dr. Richard Reid:I've really enjoyed it. Thank you so much.
Dr. Leah OH:All right, my friends. That wraps up our conversation today. Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose. I'm looking forward to chatting with you again soon on the Communicative Leader leader.
