The Communicative Leader
On The Communicative Leader, we're making your work life what you want it to be. Do you need years of training or special equipment? Not at all my friends. Simple, yet thoughtful changes in your communication can make great strides in displaying your leadership ability. And why the heck should you care about leadership communication? Well, communication is the yardstick others use to determine whether or not they see you as a leader. Ahhh don't be scared, I got you. We will walk through common organizational obstacles and chat about small, but meaningful communication-rooted changes you can integrate immediately. No more waiting for the workplace to become what you hope it will. Nope. You, my friends, will be empowered and equipped to make those changes. Let's have some fun! Can't get enough?
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The Communicative Leader
Unleashing Uncommon Leadership with John Gallagher
John Gallagher, visionary leader behind Growing Champions coaching and consulting, shares his journey from mechanical engineer to renowned executive coach and discusses how his faith-based, structured approach transforms leaders from mediocrity to excellence.
Takeaways
- Mentorship can significantly shape one's leadership journey.
- Faith can provide a strong foundation for leadership principles.
- The greatest story ever told is about the impact we have on others.
- Overcoming mediocrity requires intentional growth and reflection.
- Lean methodology can be applied to leadership and personal development.
- Balance in life is about integration, not perfection.
- Intentional communication is key to building relationships.
- Discipline is essential for achieving long-term goals.
- Reading is a powerful tool for personal and professional growth.
- Setting aside focused time can lead to significant progress.
Visit GrowingChampions.com and check out John's podcast "The Uncommon Leader" and blog "The Champion's Brew" for more resources on leadership development.
Hey leader! Thanks for listening. For more leadership communication tips, check out https://www.thecommunicativeleader.com/
Welcome to another episode of the Communicative Leader. I'm your host, dr Leah oh, and today we have a truly inspiring guest, john Gallagher. He is the visionary leader behind growing champions coaching and consulting company With over 25 years of experience in leadership and lean methodology. John has made a significant impact as a consultant and coach to some of the world's leading organizations, think IBM, mitsubishi Electric and Harvard University. John's powerful and unique methodology, known as the greatest story ever told, has transformed the lives of countless C-suite executives and senior leaders. He helped guide them from underperformance to achieving unparalleled impact. His personal transformation journey even featured in Men's Health and underscores his commitment to leading an uncommon life. Apart from his consulting expertise, john is also a celebrated author, podcaster and blogger. His podcast, the Uncommon Leader, and his blog, the Champion's Brew, are invaluable resources for those seeking to grow as leaders.
Dr. Leah OH:In today's episode, we're going to explore how John's approach to people, development, productivity and profitability helps individuals and organizations achieve their fullest potential. If you're ready to unlock the secrets to becoming an uncommon leader, this episode is packed with valuable insights and strategies. Let's have some fun. Hello and welcome to the Communicative Leader hosted by me, dr Leah O'Millian Hodges. My friends call me Dr O, I'm a professor of communication and a leadership communication expert. On the Communicative Leader, we're working to make your work life what you want it to be. John, we're so excited to have you on the Communicative Leader today, and before we dive into our conversation, I was hoping you could share your journey. So you are a mechanical engineering graduate and now you're a renowned executive coach and a visionary leader.
John Gallagher:Leah, thank you so much for having me on as a guest. I'm looking forward to our conversation today. And you think about that journey. Even the journey to just sitting here right now it probably would not be considered one of the more traditional for a mechanical engineer. As I went through college and came out, I went into a manufacturing training program and really moved out of the state of West Virginia for the first time in my life outside of a month in Minnesota. But I was really a deer in the headlights in terms of just moving to a small city in Indiana but ultimately learning to understand manufacturing Along the way. I just happened to a small city in Indiana but ultimately learning to understand manufacturing Along the way. I just happened to meet up with a couple of great mentors. That truly helped me understand what the definition of leadership was. I mean, I had resigned myself to, I was done with school, I wasn't going to do any more reading anymore, I didn't need to do growth anymore and I was in for a rude awakening. I had set my vision on what I wanted my salary to be by a certain age. I got there by age 26. I'm like well, what am I going to do now I thought I had arrived already, but a long ways to go. It's amazing what can happen when mentors come into your life and introduce you.
John Gallagher:I had a mentor early on in my journey who gave me the book the 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership by John C Maxwell, a book that many have read, millions of people have read, and I continue to suggest that book today, some almost 30 years later. And he walked through that book with me chapter by chapter and I was hooked and I understand kind of what the role of leadership was. And while being a mechanical engineer was very challenging, it really was, from a personality profile standpoint, natural for me to be more on the relationship side than I was on the science side of engineering. Ultimately, that led me into many different things my first leadership opportunity at age 28 at a manufacturing facility, ultimately moving about four times in the period of the next 15 years in industries such as manufacturing but also in real estate. And then I ended up once I rode that market down in 2009, deciding to get back into manufacturing because that was where I was very comfortable in leadership and I kept getting pushed over, kept getting nudged over into this space of consulting.
John Gallagher:I had learned the lean manufacturing philosophy. I had pushed back against it for a while and finally someone said well, we need you to do it in healthcare, in hospitals and clinics and I thought that's a fascinating idea. I could do that for a couple of years be a consultant and work in hospitals and clinics, learn something new and then get back into operations again real quick in the future. Well, that was nearly 15 years ago. In consulting 2020, covid got a chance to be escorted out of the organization because our model just slowed down. We couldn't get into hospitals and clinics anymore and decided to start my own company, growing Champions. And five years later, here we are today having a conversation about communication on the Communicative Leader Podcast. It's pretty exciting.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah, and I really this is always one of my favorite questions because I work with a lot of students, right, my day job. I'm a professor and they, you know at in your early twenties, you do think it's going to be very linear and you're like this is it? And I laugh too, because we're wrapping up the semester and my undergrad's finishing up. I'm like I'm not doing another assignment, I'm not going to buy another textbook, like I am done. So it's fun to always hear that a lot of times we end up in these unexpected places, but when these new doors open, we recognize how we can build on these previous skills that we've had or interests.
John Gallagher:Absolutely, and I think about that because the difference between maybe at 26 and today for me at 56, are those experience and stories and the books that I've read over that 30-year journey, the people that I've had a chance to meet. I mean the job opportunities are interesting in very diverse spaces, but it's really those experiences, those books that you read and those people that you meet are what form you into the person that you are over time. And so it's funny that you mentioned that and I smile and I know my mom always listens to any of the podcasts that I'm on. It gives her something to do. But she would always say I never would have seen you as a reader. You didn't read when you were little and you didn't read certainly after college and things like that. But I always loved to tease her because I've become a reader, no doubt about it in my journey, very intentional reader in that journey, and I think that's very important.
Dr. Leah OH:You're like it happened for me, mom, that's great. She's my bookshelf behind me. She's like where did all that stuff come from? Well, john, I know that you take a faith-based approach to your work and your consulting and I was hoping you could talk to us about how your faith influences the way you coach others and you guide others to help them strive to achieve their potential.
John Gallagher:Love the question. Back to this story situation again. It was an experience that I had back in 2009. I was at a retreat a leadership retreat ultimately designing my life plan and how I wanted my future to look in terms of work, in terms of my family, in terms of finances an exercise that I had done before and I was doing a refresh of that life plan, and I had my Bible with me at the time and, clearly, back when I was 15 years ago, I was not as well versed in the Bible as I might be today and I still wouldn't consider myself a scholar by any stretch. But I just decided, while I was working on that plan, to open that Bible up and almost serendipitously whatever that is I don't think that's the right word I think there was an intention. I opened it up to John 15, which talked about the verses that spoke about Jesus being the vine and we are the branches, and that we are called to bear fruit in our lives and the lives of others, and it really got me thinking a bunch in terms of how I was being as a leader, bearing fruit in my own life as well as in the lives of others. So I started to play with that just a little bit and ultimately it led to kind of this tree that was in my mind for a few years and understanding how to bear fruit.
John Gallagher:Well, fast forward about 10 years 2020,. Again, I have the opportunity to be escorted out of the organization, decide to start a business on my own, and I'm working on the logo for Growing Champions, the company that I created, and I'm working with a designer who brings me three options and I just tell him I said I'd like a tree to be part of that option. With regards to the logo, he brings me back to very traditional trees that are there. But the third one was one that caught my eye. It was actually a gentleman coming out of the water with his arms raised high and leaves kind of around his arms. That formed the silhouette, or ultimately the picture, of what appeared to be a tree, and while it made me very uncomfortable at the time in terms of understanding faith inside of my business, upon reflection it helped me to realize that, no, that was really going back those 10 years.
John Gallagher:What I was being called to do was bear fruit, and I started to study that a little bit more. I mean those two words together in the Bible bear fruit appear 29 times and the word fruit appears over 200 times in the Bible in terms of. So you know, I just felt obviously there was a calling for me to bear fruit and as I work with those one-on-one leaders that I coach on a regular basis or those organizations that I coach, I believe that I've been called to not only bear fruit in my life but to help them to bear fruit in their work. Now, whether that's specifically talking about scripture or not, that's really not what it's all about. But it is about leading a business that has more purpose than just making a profit that they've got to be intentional at creating, that they, I believe, would benefit from a servant mindset of both developing themselves and developing others, implementing structures and processes that support that so that they can have a strong impact in the future.
John Gallagher:So this journey for me on the faith has been an evolution over time over the period of 15 years, and I have become more or well-versed in the Bible over time. But I still have a long ways to go and I just you know, I know that I think. Last thing on that, I think there's really three books that almost all leadership books are modeled after. One of those is the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. Think and Grow Rich is the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey Think and Grow Rich. And then the third one is the Bible. That it's kind of the roadmap for leadership done correctly inside of a business.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, thank you, john. When you were responding to that question, I kept thinking about the power of a generative approach, right and, like you said, bearing fruit and I like that idea of essentially just thinking about, yes, how do we get a return on investment, but how do we leave things better than when we found them?
John Gallagher:Yes, amen, absolutely. How do we as individuals? I often hark back to a quote from Irma Bombeck, who talks about at the end of her life. She wanted to make sure that she had exhausted all of the gifts that she had been given and not leave anything inside the tank, so to speak, and I think that's just a great vision is that we've been given these gifts. We need to steward those gifts that we've been given, whether it's gifts of leadership, whether that's gifts financially or, ultimately, gifts to be able to serve in the space that we can leave the world a better place and not quit doing that until we're done.
Dr. Leah OH:Use it all up. Yeah yeah, that is really powerful, and let's continue with this thread because I know you have a methodology the greatest story ever told and it has a really profound impact on executives. So I was hoping you could explain these principles and then how you can have used it to help leaders overcome things that are holding them back or overcome mediocrity.
John Gallagher:Sure and I love that again because I think that's one of the barriers that keeps folks from growing faster is mediocrity, is accepting where you are not growing, specifically with regards to the greatest story ever told. So let's keep the faith integration as a part of that. I do believe that the greatest story ever told was the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Having said that, as leaders we talked about that we have opportunity to grow ourselves, to bear fruit and grow others and grow organizations, and how do we really measure that? How do we measure that impact? I talk about the greatest story ever told in the life of a leader is when someone is sitting down in a room and they're asked a question by someone to write the name of five individuals who, in their life, have made a positive impact on their life.
John Gallagher:Now, as we think about that question again, another quote that comes to mind is, ultimately, that people won't remember what you said. They won't remember what you did. They'll remember how they made you feel, and oftentimes we can't remember what somebody said the last five years in a speech. Or, frankly, if you went to see a comedian, you can't remember any of his jokes. When you leave five minutes later you often don't remember what people did as well. Many times people struggle to remember the most valuable players of Super Bowls, even though it's one. You know the last five Super Bowls. But many people, almost all people, do not have trouble recalling in their entire life people who have made a positive impact on their life and made a difference.
John Gallagher:And the story of the greatest story ever told really is when someone writes your name on their list and you may never even know about it, but that's the greatest story ever told.
John Gallagher:So I often finish up with executives asking them a question who's going to write your name on their list? And once you've identified those individuals, and how are you going to intentionally build relationships with those five individuals to create that story in the future? Again, even though you may never hear that or see that one of the most humbling things you can do as a leader is to write your own eulogy. That One of the most humbling things you can do as a leader is to write your own eulogy. John Maxwell, one of my favorite authors, a mentor of mine that I would say because of the books that he's written, would say your life is going to be defined in one sentence at your eulogy. Why don't you go ahead and write that sentence today and so that you can start to intentionally create that and then know the people at your funeral are going to say these certain things? That's the greatest story ever told.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, and I really love that idea. I mean, if we're thinking about that eulogy, like you said, it's going to happen, so let's take time to embrace it, but it gives us a chance. We're not going to stay mediocre if we're living to an aspiration that we want to see for ourselves, that we want to fulfill and that's so powerful. Excellent, absolutely. But I know in preparing for this conversation, you've mentioned that you've had struggles with confidence and imposter syndrome in the past and I'm wondering how you've kind of transformed those challenges and how those experiences shape your coaching today or the development of these methodologies that you share to empower others.
John Gallagher:Love this question. It's one that ultimately led me into coaching, to lead me into wanting to make a difference in the lives of others. So I wish this were my quote, but it's not Rory Vaden, the CEO of Brand Builders Group and a Hall of Fame speaker. He said you are most powerfully positioned to help the person that you used to be, and I just found that I was listening to that on a podcast one day when I was driving in Chicago and almost had a wreck when I listened to it, trying to rewind and hear it again so that I could remember it, and it led me to being coached by his organization. But when I think about that in terms of confidence and imposter syndrome not being worthy, I hearken back another story.
John Gallagher:I was having a performance review done in my early 30s, a little over 20 years ago, and I was sitting around this big conference table and my boss was across me from the table and what was really profound about it is that the room was all glass and people were walking around outside. They knew I was getting my performance review. I had been the acting president for this company here and my boss, who's still my mentor, friend and business partner today in the different levels, but still we're still working together was giving my performance review to me as a president, and he walked through that performance review on a scale of one to five, absolutely gave me true feedback, kind feedback, great feedback, and I got a 2.3 out of 5. Yeah, and it was the hardest, most loving performance review I had ever had. And I remember sitting there after the performance review was over and I was almost speechless and I actually again mid-early 30s I had these two tears that started rolling down my cheeks. I couldn't even say anything, I just had these tears that were there and all I just remember the last thing that I said was I need help and I you know I asked for help.
John Gallagher:I had learned about a coaching company some 60 days earlier that was available and I said I'd like to work with this company and that that boss invested in me. What does that mean in terms of confidence in how I coach today? And the imposter syndrome is I had a choice to make at that point in time. I could have chosen to take that feedback very negatively or I could have chosen to take that feedback and to grow from it and those two people that I wanted to help in my coaching.
John Gallagher:Was me sitting there receiving that feedback and recognizing that I wanted to grow.
John Gallagher:Was me sitting there receiving that feedback and recognizing that I wanted to grow, but also the gentleman on the other side of the table who had learned to give great feedback, to be truthful and loving in the feedback that he had given and let me know what I needed to grow. I wanted to be able to help both of those individuals on this journey, so I spent a long time kind of growing, being coached myself, learning a methodology in terms of coaching, brought that into my consulting work and some of the relationships that I was building with C-suite executives and ultimately recognized that, through some intentional relationship building, I was starting to make some impact in their lives as a result of some of the stories that I had, and so it gave me some confidence to think about starting my own business and coaching one day. Still didn't make it easy for me to make that jump, but ultimately it led to the organization Growing Champions, which was really about growing yourself and growing others as leaders to be the champions they were called to be.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah yeah, what a profound experience. Champions, they were called to be. Yeah yeah, what a profound experience.
Dr. Leah OH:And I love that you can use the words hopeful and loving in that delivery of feedback, because that is like you said that's not an easy position to be in, and I think it is much easier to dismiss it, as they all don't understand what I'm doing. They're not at this, at my level, so this makes sense instead of saying, wow, what is the truth in here? What can I take from this to grow from? Yeah, that's incredible, all right, so let's shift gears a little bit. You talked about lean methodology already. You've mentioned that, and so we know that you have this extensive experience across a couple industries with lean methodology. And I'm wondering now in your coaching business, do you incorporate these principles in helping others? And if so, you know how do you see these methods as helping to drive productivity and growth?
John Gallagher:Such a good question and I love that because you know, when I think about that, here's where my engineer comes back inside of me. While I have some of these leadership characteristics as well, the engineer behind me is like I love structure, I love framework, I love process. And I had been going forward on a journey, trying to muscle my way through that in my manufacturing career, like, oh, I can figure out how to solve this problem myself, I don't need any help. And one day we had these consultants come in 1998, were going to teach us how to do this thing called lean. I'm like I don't need this, I don't need these people in my life to show me how to do this.
John Gallagher:I tell you a week-long rapid improvement event, or Kaizen event that we called it, kaizen being changed for the better. I was hooked. It was the framework that hooked me in terms of making that change happen. It was really a seven-step process ultimately documenting reality, identifying the waste in the processes and the waste being those things that just keep us from getting to where we want to do Brainstorming, countermeasures or working together as a team to make those things happen, actually making changes in one week and not just talking about it, but actually making improvements, verifying the results did it really work or not? And then ultimately making that the new standard when it did work. And those steps through that process have been the same whether it's an organization looking to improve a financial process like month-end close, or how they hire individuals, or how they make a certain product, or whether it's those same steps as a leader of how you grow as well Document reality, where you are today as a leader, and understanding the waste or what gets in. What are the distractions that keep you from going forward. It's like the methodology just became pure and then the step I added really at the end was the continuous improvement side of you got to do it again.
John Gallagher:Once you get to a certain point of improvement using this framework, you're not done, you've just begun when you think you're done. And that's the fun part about Lean. What I really learned is it was continuous improvement. We didn't have to get to perfect at the first time, but we wanted to move toward perfect in that problem-solving methodology. So those tools I often refer to lean as the passionate pursuit of the elimination of waste those tools work in our business processes. Those tools work in our daily leadership processes. Those tools work in our churches and our homes.
John Gallagher:I could go on for days about the different tools within that six-step or seven-step framework, when you add in the continuous improvement side to really get folks to think about it. But if you can find a problem and it doesn't have to be lean, but if you can find a problem-solving methodology that has a structure to it and you can repeat that over and over again, you're bound to be successful. But the foundation of lean really is, as they taught us, continuous improvement. You can always get better. But the second one was respect for people as well. So there was a human component to that that really drove me as well to say these tools really work. Yeah, I love it. It probably drives my wife crazy and others, frankly, that I work with, because I walk into a restaurant and I'm evaluating flow. It's the perspective that I have. It's just how I'm wired.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah.
John Gallagher:Back to that engineering thing and she's like can we just enjoy the meal? I'm like no, look how they're delivering the food to us. They could do it so much better if they just called me oh, that's funny.
Dr. Leah OH:And what I want to raise up from that response is because a lot of times we recognize people are shifting careers more today than they ever have in the past and I think a lot of people think, oh, I'm no longer in engineering, that stays locked up in my engineering box. But there are so many, like you said, these tools, these ways of thinking, these skill sets that we have, that can just make us even better in these new capacities. And it's kind of figure out how do I use that lens here? How can I pull out this tool and and adapt it for what I'm doing now?
John Gallagher:Absolutely yeah. I mean because, again, that's the thing we think we need to keep relearning things over and over again, when really it's just changing the perspective on the structures and frameworks we've already learned. All the way back I had a physician that I worked with. He said you know all these things you're teaching me in Lean? I learned in kindergarten Things like a place for everything and everything in its place. I'm like Michael it sounds like a book. You could write Everything I learned about Lean I learned in kindergarten. He said he was going to write that one day. I don't think he has yet, but it's true. If we can keep things simple as well, it can be very helpful.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, that makes sense. I have a kindergartner now and I'm thinking like, yes, these are things that he comes home and tells us. So we were just talking about change and I am wondering you know, what is some of your go to advice that you offer leaders and others who you work with that are resistant to change or really hesitant to try a new approach to leadership or development or business or whatever it is? How do you help them get over that?
John Gallagher:I love the question, too, about change. I mean, look, change is good, as long as it doesn't happen to me, right.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah.
John Gallagher:I mean asking you to change I think, as human beings we tend to be avert, we have an aversion to change, but we also have a perspective of especially inside of industry or inside of personal growth that if we stay where we are we're not going to win. So let's first recognize this and what I talk about, folks, that change is a choice that individuals have to make, that they're ready to go. I mean, this is kind of another job maximalism. Change is inevitable. Growth is optional. You are either going to change or someone's going to change you and you have to understand that.
John Gallagher:But this comes back to that word you used before with regards to mediocrity. I often use the word complacency. People change when the displeasure of remaining where they are today is greater than the discomfort of the change itself, because change is not easy. Change requires us to do things differently. I often teach folks to fold their arms and recognize which arm is over top, and then ask them to fold their arms the other way and put that arm on top. And how uncomfortable that is.
John Gallagher:Change is uncomfortable, but we've got to get past the displeasure of complacency, the displeasure of mediocrity. I know that we can get better before we're truly going to make a change. So I think that's the big thing. You've got to make the choice that where you are today is not where you want to be and you want to move toward the person or leader you were called to be. You want to move toward the organization that has the potential to have the impact that it wants to have. So many different paths we could go down on change, but I mean, I often have the question before I take on a client are you ready to change? Because if you want me to just tell you that everything you're doing is okay, that's not going to happen. So oftentimes, when they invest, when they make an investment, especially a financial investment in coaching or in consulting, that helps put some skin in the game for them and gives them another reason. But really that change is inside of them that they have to get ready for yeah.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, and I really love that idea is that once that displeasure of continuing to be where you are outweighs what you know will be some discomfort with the change you know, then it's time to exercise that option and say, okay, let's see what that looks like. What's behind door number two?
John Gallagher:Absolutely Exactly right. I'm ready to change. It could be a health scare For me. It was a health scare eight years ago that finally got me. The displeasure of remaining the same, overweight and out of balance, overcame the discomfort of going to the gym four times a week, getting a trainer stop eating French fries those types of things that were not helping me get to where I was called to be.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah. And so, thinking about change, thinking about growth, I want to add in another word, and that is balance. And I think this can be so hard. So I'm wondering you know, how do you guide leaders in balancing their professional or their personal development along with all of these professional responsibilities to kind of help them achieve holistic success? So you know, especially leaders, that to-do list it seems never to get shorter, no matter what, but we still want to invest and grow as a person. So how do we do that?
John Gallagher:Kim again. Leah, I love this question. The questions are really good that you're asking and they challenge other leaders. First thing I generally don't use is the word balance, because it's very difficult to do right. I often use the word integration life integration rather than life balances. How do I integrate all the things that are important to me? So the way that I do that with others is inside of the greatest story ever told methodology.
John Gallagher:After they've really written the impact that they want to have, I have them do an assessment in six areas of their life, not just their fruiture my word fruit there's that word fruit again their fruiture being their career, their vocation that, in essence, brings them money. It's not just that, but it's also their family, their faith, their finances, their fitness or their health and fun. What are they doing to have fun? And so those six Fs I have them really write a picture of what it looks like for them 15, 20 years out with regards to a vision in each one of those areas. And I'm not talking about like who I'm married to, but just like what I see happening. I'm walking on the beach, or I'm living, you know, somewhere warm, or whatever that means. Or you know I don't have debt. I mean, those are. Those are really good things to start thinking about from a vision standpoint. And then I get them to recognize okay, if that's your vision, now we have to move to the how.
John Gallagher:What are those things that you have to do daily, weekly and monthly to be successful in all of those spaces? To get there and to your point, I think the balance. While there may be seasons that they have to be a little bit out of balance in terms of time and where they're investing, you got to recognize those are six balls that you're juggling all the time and some of those balls are glass and some of them are really rubber that can bounce back if you drop them. The family ball, that family F you're not going to drop that one because you want that to be. That's a glass ball, for one thing, and that can really lead you to something. So, understanding that there does have to be time invested whether it's with your spouse and date night, or it's vacations with the kids, or it's reading time with your children and getting them to grow, or having dinner three days a week with your family that those are some of the vision type things that are there. Once they recognize those disciplines. Then I have them take a look and say, okay, now let's put it into your calendar. Where does it show up in your calendar that you're dedicating that time to them?
John Gallagher:One of the tools that I use inside of my coaching is called the ideal week template. I have them draw up the seven day ideal week, from when they wake up to when they get to sleep each night, and what would be the activities that fill those days for them to be ideal. Not that they would ever get there, because, again, ideal may be something we can't get to, but it allows them to compare their calendar and compare their performance and reflect and say what went well this week and what could have gone better, because then I can have an opportunity to move toward what that ideal week is, knowing I may never get there. The last thing on kind of this tip, on kind of balance or integration, and I use that word season If you find yourself in a season for three or four months, that's not a season anymore anymore.
John Gallagher:Okay, where you're working long days six, seven, eight, nine o'clock at night, working those days because I'm in a season of busyness and trying to explain that to your family. It's not a season when it goes on that long. It's your lifestyle and we're going back to that decision to make a change. You got to learn to prioritize properly and find out if that's the way you really want to live.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, that's so helpful. John, I think you know this idea. I think so many people will say, well, I want to be here one day, but they don't know how to unpack it and to actually make that. And you helped us to think about how you can make it a bit of a roadmap, you know, to from where you are to where you want to be. And I really appreciate that idea that, if it's, you know three, four months that it's no longer a season and that is a, you know, an indicator to you. Look in the mirror, look at what's going on, look at these choices and figure out if that's a lifestyle that works for us and our family and serves everyone well, and if it's not, then, like you said, it's time to make a change. It's really helpful, yeah, because I think so often we just get stuck and we're like that's season and you're like, oh, it's been five years, it's been seven years.
John Gallagher:Well, that's why I love the intentional discipline of reflection, whether that's a weekly reflection for 15 minutes on a Friday where you look back over your week, or whether it's a quarterly reflection where you look at that greatest story ever told and assess am I doing well in some of these areas and I could be doing better? What do I need to keep doing, start doing and stop doing to start moving closer to that greatest story ever told? Intentionality is so important. Yeah, that's so important. I love that. I mean good intention without discipline leads to excuses.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, exactly.
John Gallagher:Good discipline with good intention leads to excellence, and I think those are two things that folks have got to realize. We've all got good intentions. We want these things to work out. We get afraid of this word discipline for some reason, but without discipline, all we end up doing is saying I want to do that someday. Some is not a number and soon is not a time. How do we get discipline to doing things?
Dr. Leah OH:Yep, that reminds me years, years ago, when I was doing my dissertation and I love writing, I love research, but the dissertation it just feels so unwieldy because it is such a large piece of writing. And I remember just kind of Googling it because I was feeling stuck and I saw a graph and it showed that motivation was up and down, up and down, up and down, but discipline was very consistent and I was like this is okay, I'm not going to be motivated every day to work on this, and that's okay. And it just gave me so much freedom. I think freedom is the word but and peace?
John Gallagher:Well, yeah, it is a word right, and so folks see discipline as constricting, when it's actually freedom done correctly. Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH:And then and then, all of a sudden, it was manageable. It was like you know how do you eat the whale, one forkful at a time. It's like this is how this is going to get done. So thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, that really was an eyeop, so let's Great.
John Gallagher:I think about that. I love going through that with folks. I mean there's so many different things that come to my mind. You talked about the discipline and the line right. Motivation goes like this. Motivation dissipates absolutely. A picture I often draw is pushing a ball up a hill. A team's pushing a rock up a hill. They're solving a problem using a methodology and they get distracted and they'll walk away from that ball. Right. And once they walk away from that ball, it rolls back down the hill again. Okay. But if we have the discipline to be the wedge that goes in place underneath that rock, we can then walk away for a little bit, knowing we have the discipline to follow the processes, to be more intentional with the work that we do and keep that improvement in place.
Dr. Leah OH:Absolutely. I love that. That illustration I Very visual. That's really helpful. So let's think about your podcast, john, because I know that you have the Uncommon Leader podcast and I'm just wondering this is really a question for me and I think others will be really interested too but all of the amazing guests that you've had, I'm wondering what are some of the memorable insights that you've taken away from that work that you've done there?
John Gallagher:You know it's funny that inside of my podcast I never would have imagined the impact of the first question that I use and that's asking any of the guests to tell me a story from their childhood that still impacts who they are as a person or as a leader today, and then weaving the conversation oftentimes back to that story and connecting that yeah, back to that quote. You're most powerfully positioned to help the person you used to be. It identifies that and how that goes. One of my favorite stories and I've had pastors and I've had executives and I've had authors but a lot of different people on the podcast One of my favorite stories is I had Auntie Ann Beiler on the former CEO of Auntie Ann's Pretzels and she told the story of her childhood and a tragedy that she went through and as she started through that story it was actually an awareness for her.
John Gallagher:As she started to talk about two books she had written, she's like, oh my goodness, this kind of makes sense. It ties back to that story really well, and so seeing some of that awareness with the leaders that I interview on the podcast is really cool. I've done 150, some episodes, whatever it is. I've done about three years now and I can count on one hand the stories that have brought me to tears, and I tell those folks that when you bring me to tears, not that I'm not empathetic or because I often come to tears, but those are impactful stories and, like whoa, I wasn't ready to hear that one. Now, that doesn't mean that everybody needs that tragedy to be able to tell a story. There are many things that happen in our lives, though, that shape us for our future, and I'm often amazed at how those stories connect so well.
Dr. Leah OH:Mm-hmm. Yeah, I like pulling out those threads and again the emphasis, on reflection, that if we're not doing it we're really missing out a lot of understanding of, I think, the whys why we're doing things and why we're making certain choices.
John Gallagher:Absolutely. I mean that. Why is so critical, gosh? I mean back to another framework when you make the choice to change. Okay, how am I going to start to, in essence, illustrate or ultimately share that why? And I use the framework, I call it so what now? What so that? So, what is the opportunity you're trying to create Now? What is? What must you do? You must take some action and the so that is what's the big reason why that's going to occur, because that's what's going to get you up out of bed every day, that's what's going to help you avoid hitting the snooze when it goes off. That's going to get you through those tough times Because, as we said, motivation dissipates.
John Gallagher:And I've used verses in the Bible to help create that framework. Paul in the New Testament was a beast in how he used that so that, telling us what we needed to do. But the ultimate verse is one of the most common verses of the Bible John 3, 16, where God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son. There's the so what? He loved the world so much so that he gave his one and only son. I'm sorry now, what was? He gave his one and only son, but the so that was that if we believed, ultimately we would have eternal life. I mean that framework works in defining problems. That keeps us going and, as Christians, regardless of where your faith is, setting up a framework like that is very important, but that's the so that that keeps us going forward as Christians.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, yeah, what a powerful, powerful framework, and I'm always struck that oftentimes it's the simplest frameworks, the simplest ideas that are the ones that are going to best position to catapult you to be successful. Right, because you can remember it. It is accessible, it makes sense. You know anyone can plug it in, and just about any aspect of their life. So thank you for sharing that.
John Gallagher:You're welcome.
Dr. Leah OH:So we've talked about, you know, all of these frameworks, these principles, your Uncommon Leader podcast, but I'm wondering if there are other resources or practices you recommend for aspiring leaders who are, you know, really focused on continuing to grow and evolve.
John Gallagher:Sure. Well, I mean, as I kind of said or alluded to a little bit earlier, I do believe that readers are leaders. So other resources, other disciplines that come in. I books are somewhere in the neighborhood of 230 to 240 pages. If you just read 10 pages a day, okay, you're going to read somewhere in the neighborhood of one to two books a month. Times 12 months, that's 24 books in a year. So 10 pages a day is going to leave you at 24 books a year.
John Gallagher:We often say we don't have the time to read books. Well, when we have a horizon out there that says I want to read 24 books, it feels so big, that horizon is so far out. Sometimes it overwhelms us. If I bring that horizon in and say I just want you to read 10 pages a day, that seems more doable. That seems like something I can put in as a discipline every morning in my habit to make that happen. Reading is a discipline every morning in my habit to make that happen. So reading is a discipline. And then ultimately, through reading, if you don't have the money to invest in terms of a coach or a mentor, those books can be mentors for you. John C Maxwell became a mentor for me and I didn't meet him for another 10 years after I read the first book. There's a picture of he and I the first time I met him almost 10 years after I read his book, but there's the list of all the books that I've read from him as well. He's become a mentor that I've done that over time.
John Gallagher:Other resources are podcasts a podcast like this to hear from other leaders to improve communication, or the Uncommon Leader Podcast. Thank you for calling that out as well, but I have three or four that I follow on a regular basis. It's hard to follow 20 or 30 of them. That can become overwhelming as well, but it's a choice. If you're at the gym and you often listen to music when you're working out, switch that over. Stack that habit and put that podcast on while you're at the gym. Walking on the treadmill. Learn while you're running or walking on the treadmill to become better and stack those important habits and then find someone to emulate in your leadership. Okay, I'm not saying to copy everything that they do or to be like them, but to emulate some of the characteristics of those individuals that you find to be very powerful and impactful and start to learn from them.
Dr. Leah OH:Yeah, oh, that's so helpful, john. I really love all of those and I love that idea of stacking different habits and really figuring out you know you might be in a really, really busy season. I've got young kids, so they're often they're not enough minutes in a day right now, but during a commute or if I'm folding laundry, putting on a podcast, something where I'm getting these other things done. But it's just a little bit for me as well, and then it also counts as self-care, right.
John Gallagher:So Absolutely counts as self-care, which is very important as well, no doubt about it.
Dr. Leah OH:So, john, I have two final questions for you, and they are integrated. This is the way that we end all episodes of the communicative leader, episodes of the communicative leader. So the first one is asking for, you know, advice or a pragmatic tip or a challenge for our titled leaders. And then the second part of the question is again what is the tip, advice or challenge for employees across all ranks, all industries, all levels?
John Gallagher:Love this. There's so many different ways that you go more frameworks right in terms of what happened. Back to the engineer in me loves to talk about how these processes work. Look, when I think about it from a titled leader standpoint and executives, oftentimes we get closed up in our office because we're important and focused on ourself. You touched on this with regards to even self-care a little bit, but I encourage titled leaders to become more intentional. Back to that greatest story ever told and the five people are going to write your name on their list.
John Gallagher:While that may not be all of the people that work for you or on your team, it's very important to intentionally build relationships and find time to communicate with them. A framework that I love to talk about. I call it 3-2-1. It's very easy Three coffees, two lunches and a dinner each month with those individuals. If you're leading a virtual team, you can do a virtual coffee or a virtual lunch. Call that happens, but identify three people that you want to have coffee with, two people that you want to have lunch with to go a little bit deeper, and one person on your team that you really want to get to know or give them some feedback and have dinner with, and then get those things on your calendar every month and then, frankly, measure yourself to it. Create a goal. If that's three, two, one, those six touches every month and see what's getting in your way. If you're not getting to those six touches, then I would encourage you to take a look at your calendar, because that intentional communication, that intentional relationship building, is so important. By the way, that works in sales as well Three, two, one, three coffees, two lunches and a dinner. You're talking about lead generation or clients that I need to work to connect with to make sure everything's going okay. Find a use of that framework to help you intentionally build communication and build relationships with those individuals, with regards to all employees.
John Gallagher:Look, I come back to that word discipline. Distractions get in our way, there's no doubt about it, and excellence only happens on purpose, okay, so we've got to be more intentional at removing those distractions from our life. Look, this little thing right here is supposed to make us more productive than we've ever been, and it is potentially one of the biggest distractions that we face on a daily basis Text messages ringing through every day, checking our email, social media death scrolling, if you want to call it. That is very important, but for all employees, even the non-title leaders, one of the tools that I talk about and I'd be willing to share it with your listeners as well, if they want to check that out on my website is the 47 most productive minutes in a leader's day, and that's setting a timer for 47 minutes and turning off all distractions. Put your phone in airplane mode, turn your email off and work on a project and focus on it for 47 minutes. Set a timer and focus on it for 47 minutes.
John Gallagher:Why 47 minutes? I don't know. There's no science behind it. For me, I went through a health program in 2017 when I lost 80 pounds, called the 47 Days of Transformation. So I just think we underestimate what we can do in 47 seconds and 47 minutes. But what that also allows us to do is, at the end of that 47 minutes, come back into the real world again.
John Gallagher:Use the last 13 minutes of that hour to check in on what you missed. Okay, to actually take a break before you go to your next meeting that are back-to-back and get yourself a glass of water. Heaven forbid to go to the restroom before you go to your next meeting, but that those 47 minutes, if someone can't get 47 minutes in their day without any distractions because they have too much stuff going on, then I think we're missing the purpose as leaders. That self-care word you talked about we've got to find the time to take care Because maybe that's in the 47 minutes. You're just reading a book undistracted for 47 minutes. You're going to get to the end of the 47 minutes, that timer is going to go off and you're going to keep going because it felt so good and it went by so fast, important to stop so you can take care of those other things. But I think that's a powerful tool that all of us can use in our own personal development.
Dr. Leah OH:Yes, yes, and I love that, john, and what I was thinking when you were talking about that. So I'm going to go back my first semester as a brand new assistant professor years ago. There's so many immediate needs like teaching, showing up, making sure you actually have that lesson plan and you're doing the service, and showing up for meetings, but you get tenured on your research right. So it was almost Thanksgiving and I hadn't gotten any research out and it just felt like this is not the path I should be on. This is a really dangerous path.
Dr. Leah OH:And I looked at my calendar and I had one hour from four to five every day, free Monday through Friday. It was just really serendipity, as you mentioned before, and at first my mind was like what are you going to do in one hour a day? That's not enough to get this research done. But by the end of the semester something was already under review and it goes back to your 47. All of a sudden you realize I had the muscle memory to sit and write then. But, yes, I completely underestimated what I could do with just that short amount of but consistent discipline and time.
John Gallagher:There's that word again discipline. It's not a four-letter word, it's a freeing word. Absolutely, it's a freedom word. Yes.
Dr. Leah OH:So, yes, I want to underline and bold highlight all of that that you just shared with us. Thank you, John. I've really enjoyed this conversation. I have learned so much, and I know that our listeners will as well.
John Gallagher:Thank you, Leah. I appreciate what you're doing. You're doing important stuff. Keep going.
Dr. Leah OH:Thank you All right, my friends. That wraps up our conversation today. Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose. I'm looking forward to chatting with you again soon on the Communicative Leader.
