From Complex to Clear: Mastering Strategic Leadership Communication

Mobeen Tahir shares practical tools for simplifying language, structuring ideas, and delivering with precision and care.

• bridging the gap between what you want to say and what the audience needs
• the cost of poor delivery on credibility and timing
• simplifying jargon into plain, repeatable language
• using why what how to move from information to action
• designing slides around a single, clear takeaway
• small delivery shifts that change impact
• earning trust by showing care and empowering teams
• practical tips for leaders and employees to improve fast

Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Guest Introduction
• 2:37 From Finance To Strategic Communication
• 5:51 The Cost Of Poor Delivery
• 9:56 Defining The Corporate Communication Gap
• 13:35 Jargon, Simplicity, And Brevity
• 16:46 Building A Strategic Voice: Why What How
• 19:46 Turning Dense Data Into Clear Insights
• 23:01 Overcoming Resistance And Finding Your Voice
• 27:12 Trust, Care, And Credibility In Finance
• 31:04 Final Advice For Leaders And Employees
• 34:34 Closing And Key Takeaway

Transcript

Dr. Leah OH: 0:00

Welcome to another episode of The Communicative Leader. I'm your host, Dr. Leah O, and today we have a guest whose expertise in strategic leadership communication is really unparalleled. We're joined by Mobine Tahir, a director at Wisdom Tree who has dedicated his career to demystifying complex financial information for investors, executives, and the media. So in this world, now driven by data and AI, the ability to articulate a clear message is no longer a soft skill, my friends. This is a critical business imperative. Mobine's unique approach to communication bridges this gap between technical expertise and human understanding, and it empowers leaders to transform complex data into clear, actionable dialogue. Mobine's work aligns with the 2023 McKinsey report, showing that 67% of executives believe improved communication has positively impacted business performance. You know I can get behind that. So in today's episode, we're going to explore how Mobean strategies can help you elevate your corporate messaging, foster clear decision making, and lead with a truly strategic voice. If you're ready to make your communication a powerful asset for your organization, this episode is packed with practical insights for you. Let's dive in and have some fun. Hello and welcome to the Communicative Leader, hosted by me, Dr. Leah O'Millian My friends call me Dr. O. I'm a professor of communication and a leadership communication expert. On The Communicative Leader, we're working to make your work life what you want it to be. So, Mobine, welcome to the Communicative Leader. And I know you have this incredible talent for making complex finance information understandable. And I was hoping, as you know, to start our journey to give us a nice foundation, if you could help us understand how you went from really working with a world of data and numbers, which I know you're still immersed in there, but to also becoming this passionate advocate for strategic leadership communication.

Mobeen Tahir: 2:15

Sure, Leah. And thank you so much for having me on the show. It's a pleasure to be here. My own journey, I think, in discovering my calling in life was uh a process of elimination, I believe. When when I was growing up, I saw my sister studying for uh medicine, and that's when I realized that's something I can't do. So that's something I eliminated from my uh my plans there and then. And then eventually, when I studied finance and entered the finance industry, now you you think that you study a finance degree at university, that's a very streamlined career path. Well, no, you can go into finance and have lots of different careers within that same industry, lots of different skill sets being employed. And early on in my career, I was doing a lot of data-heavy work, very quantity work, where there were a lot of spreadsheets and models involved and number crunching involved. And again, that process of elimination, I realized maybe that wasn't for me. What I eventually discovered I enjoy doing is articulating meaning and synthesizing complex messages into simpler messages and communicating them effectively. And when I found a role that allowed me to do that, that's when I really started enjoying it. So in that journey where I realized that that was my calling, I also realized that there is a lack of focus, particularly in the finance industry. I can speak for the finance industry where I come from, but I think it can be applied to other industries as well. There's a lot of focus on doing the work, whether it's researching a particular topic, whether it's forming views on any particular thing, there's very little emphasis on how that will eventually be communicated and delivered. And I'm a strong advocate that delivery should come first because once you know the principles of good delivery that gets you into that discipline of organizing your material in the right way that makes the right impression. And that lack of focus made me think that not only do I want to make sure my presentations have those aspects of delivery. So I focus about focus on learning and developing those things myself, but also in the capacity of a public speaking coach, which is a side hustle that I started after working in the finance industry, I look to bring that focus back to business professionals and corporates, that this is something that can really be a game changer for you.

Dr. Leah OH: 5:02

Yeah, yeah, so important. And of course, I'm I'm a leadership communication scholar. So this is music to my ears. But you're even, I and I think, you know, you hit on the bill, you're coming from finance, but whatever these entrenched areas of expertise, when you're drinking the Kool-Aid, when that is the jargon is what you're using and writing in day in and day out, it becomes really hard to remember that storytelling component to another audience. So kudos to you for thinking about that and kind of starting with that rather than getting to the end point and being like, they'll get it, right? They're gonna get it. This makes sense. So great. So let's think about kind of the the impact of being able to communicate clearly. So, you know, there's a recent McKinsey report and it highlights that improved communication can positively impact business performance for almost 70% of executives. Now, that is a really compelling statistic. So I'm wondering from your perspective, what are some of the most striking examples of how poor communication, so we're gonna flip it, especially in high-stakes environments, how can that negatively affect an organization's bottom line?

Mobeen Tahir: 6:20

I was at a conference where I was meant to speak on stage. And before my turn came, I was sitting in the audience. Now I'm sitting in the audience listening to another speaker speak, and I take a look at my watch and realize that maybe the speaker is coming to the end of their allocated time. And at this point, I notice the moderator of the event, he stands up from his uh seat, and that's a sign normally to a speaker on stage that you're approaching your time, and maybe it's it's a good idea to wrap up. And I see the moderator is now standing, and the speaker continues to speak. Okay, so now immediately there's a bit of tension uh building up. And a few minutes pass, and the moderator is now looking at his watch, he starts to pace. And to the point that people start noticing the moderator pacing in one part of the room, and the attention of the audience has gone away from the speaker on stage to the moderator now pacing and being uneasy in this situation. So there's clearly an elephant in the room, all because the speaker has not realized that they've gone over time. And the reason why they had gone over time was they were delivering great insights, right? They had a smart person delivering great insights on stage, but the mistake that they had made was to organize their message in a way that they didn't see that they were allocated 20 minutes. Well, how many messages can you bring to a 20-minute presentation? If you bring 37 slides and 50 talking points, you will inevitably cause the host of the organization to have a slight heart uh situation. Right. So this was indeed the case there and then. And when the speaker finished, of course, the focus of the audience was drawn to the fact that the speaker had gone over their time. And instead of appreciating all the great insights that the speaker had delivered, they were now thinking, okay, now the rest the other speaker, how's the moderator going to adjust the timing of the conference, what's going to happen next, what an awkward situation.

Dr. Leah OH: 8:45

Yeah.

Mobeen Tahir: 8:46

And suddenly it undermines the credibility of the speaker on stage. So simple things like when I teach leaders that managing your time is not just about respecting the schedule for the day, it's about ensuring that your credibility remains intact. Such an important thing because small mistakes that lack of focus on this important principle that you need to organize your messages in in a way that you hit your allocated time can have all the impact on your on your credibility and your message and your goal in actually being there. And and and it's so easy to make those adjustments, just having the right focus. So, to your question, if if you don't do that, you end up in those sorts of situations where even if you have great messages, you can undermine your credibility.

Dr. Leah OH: 9:41

Yeah, what a powerful example. And certainly, I mean, I'm sitting here feeling like secondhand embarrassment. I was not there. But I think we've all been in situations like that where then all of a sudden, like you said, we realize we're not even listening to this expert who is probably even earning an honorarium, or at the very least, they're, you know, this is a professional feather in their cap. We're not listening to them. We're looking at these nonverbals. Like you said, we're feeling that tension. All of a sudden, we're just tuned into this drama that's happening rather than these insights. So thank you for raising that up. And I think too, so many people inadvertently look over the power of holistic communication, which is not just what we're saying verbally or with our body, but as you said, respecting the situation and the context. So being respectful of the time we've been allocated, being mindful that if we're not thinking about these things, then we are really positioned to do some damage to our credibility, like you said. Yeah. So, Bean, let's talk about this corporate communication gap. And so, you know, one of the elements that you focus on is bridging the corporate communication gap. And I was hoping you could define this for us. What is this gap that you see in your work? And what are some of these early warning signs when you realize an organization is really starting to break down in communication between leaders, between its teams, and between external stakeholders?

Mobeen Tahir: 11:18

Of course. So any communication, particularly in corporate communication, of course, there is what the speaker needs to communicate. So that's your talking point. There's the message that a company needs to communicate. Yes. But there is what the audience needs. And of course, if you're running a business, ultimately you're looking to solve a problem of your customer. The gap is in bridging those two things. So the the two things have to come together. Yes, you have a message to convey, but if it doesn't solve the problem, then the message is meaningless. There's no point. And so often we see businesses fail to appreciate that they are there to serve a customer. And just uh we we see this all the time. For example, I in my personal life, I like to notice situations where businesses fail me as a customer, and that that's a learning outcome for me. Yeah. I I recently was out for a walk with my family, and we got some ice cream, right? We got ice cream, and we we picked out an ice cream that I had been having all my life. So this was a known brand that I've known since I was a child, and there was an impression in my mind about the quality that I was expecting from this ice cream because I've been having this all my life. I know the quality that I'm going to get. And of course, when you're having ice cream, you you know, okay, it's a decision, right? You you you think, okay, I'm I'm going to consume all those calories, I'm gonna consume all that sugar. It better be worthwhile. So I I of course open the wrapper and I dive into the ice cream, and soon enough I realize that this is not the same ice cream I've been having all my life. The the the external layer of chocolate that's meant to be on the ice cream has thinned and it's now half the thickness that it used to be. There, there's a there's a core inside it which has shrunk in size. So the quality has just completely vanished. Yeah. And in some parts of the business, what we call it shrinkflation. So that they they either raise the their prices or they reduce the quality or the size of the pro of the of the product. But in that moment, they've lost me as a customer forever.

Dr. Leah OH: 13:49

Yeah.

Mobeen Tahir: 13:50

And what a shame. Now, if as a business, that that company that's making the ice cream, their goal is to serve the needs of the customer. And if the customer is disappointed, then you know that's it. Game over. Game over for that business. So the same idea applies to any communication that look, you have to think about what is it that the customer needs. If I am in a situation where I am talking to another person, whether it's one person or standing on stage addressing your company or addressing a conference, ultimately those people are there to get something of value from you. And if the mindset starts from you recognizing that you are there to serve the audience, then the communication is impactful, it is meaningful, and then your talking points will actually land because they are designed in a way to serve.

Dr. Leah OH: 14:49

Yeah, exactly. Because you're right. I think so many times individuals and organizations make the mistake of thinking, you know, talk or just posting on a site is communication. You're like, it's just more noise, right? Because it's not landing, like you're saying. We're not developing a meaningful connection there. Uh, we're just kind of adding more noise to an already very noisy life, right? So thank you. That's really, really helpful. And I think too, it's an important reminder that we see this in all aspects of our life, you know, and that's one thing I really love about studying and working in communication, and I imagine you do as well, is when we spend a little bit of time and intention here, not only does it help us professionally, but we start to recognize things maybe at home or families or friends that maybe before we would have interrupted or we would not have, we would have been thinking about our response instead of being fully engaged. And it's just a nice reminder of the power of what you're doing.

Mobeen Tahir: 16:00

Yes, yes, absolutely.

Dr. Leah OH: 16:02

Yeah. So let's think about some barriers. We're going to continue to think about these barriers that pop up when we try to communicate. And particularly in the area that you're working in, in finance, I imagine in some tech industries as well. We have so many subject matter experts who are truly, you know, at the forefront in their fields, but they can struggle to translate that expertise into an accessible and compelling narrative. So I'm wondering, Obin, in your work, what are some of these, what is the biggest barrier preventing them from being able to translate this? And why do you think it's so hard to overcome?

Mobeen Tahir: 16:43

It's somewhat related to that previous point where you're too much in your own mind about communicating all the stuff that you have in your mind that's it's easy to forget that ultimately you are there at the service of someone else. I've been in presentations where I've been in the audience receiving a presentation, and I've felt absolutely stupid because I have not because I find myself not understanding what's being said. And then I'm thinking, am I the only one here who doesn't understand the message that is being communicated? But I'm sure there are others who are thinking the same thing. And in in one instance, for example, there was this presentation that I was listening to, and it was particularly difficult to understand. And as I asked myself the question, why is it that I'm unable to understand this presentation? It boiled down to language. And language, it's not that the person was speaking English, and and and I've and everyone in this in the room spoke English. The problem was not the language in the sense that they were speaking a different language, but even within English, they were speaking the language of their domain. So of course they they they came from a computer science background, which meant that the terminology that they were using were it included words and terms that people who didn't come from a computer science background would find difficult to understand. Now, of course, if you are within a situation where everyone in the room speaks the same language, it's absolutely fine. Of course, you then you don't need to some sometimes acronyms are perfectly well understood.

Dr. Leah OH: 18:40

Yeah.

Mobeen Tahir: 18:40

Sometimes certain terminology is perfectly well understood. But sometimes there might be people from different domains sitting in the same room, and you have to make a case for whatever you are trying to convey in a language that is understandable to everyone. And so the simple rule is to at least simplify it. Um and and there's that idea, right? If you can't explain it in simple terms, then you you don't understand it well enough yourself, right? So that's the that's the starting principle. And I I like that principle, even in situations where you think you're in in inside your own domain, it's it's always a good rule to simplify the message as much as possible. Yeah. And convey it with brevity. Brevity is another key one that if if you can't convey it with brevity, it means you haven't organized your thoughts well enough. So I think the the first thing is to know well who is it that you are speaking to. Like, you know, people say that if you if someone asks you what do you do for a living, well, the answer should depend on who asks you, right? It if it's if it's going to be uh a a friend, you will respond differently. If you strike up a conversation with a stranger, you will respond differently. If it's a person from a certain profession, you might you might respond in a way that makes it more understandable to them. You might create an analogy that works for them. So ultimately, your response will depend on your audience, and that's that's the key with any communication. So the barrier to effective communication, particularly in corporates, is we often get caught up using our own language when we must realize we should at least make progress towards using or adopting the language that is understandable to our audience.

Dr. Leah OH: 20:40

Yes, yeah. And that's and you're right. I think even if everyone in the room understands the same acronyms and jargon, when you simplify the message, when you, you know, you take that extra step, I think the goal is to make that message repeatable so people all leave with the same understanding too. Because as we said, the amount of information, particularly for folks in corporate environments, is is daunting, right? The number of decisions and discussions. So even if you are speaking the same language with others, like you said, that to simplify it and keep it brief is just going to be a better way forward, regardless, right? So yeah, that's it always like with communication and organizations and telling them even if you don't love this or buy into this or see this as a soft skill, if you want to have better decision making, if you want to have more effective relationships, that that simple, brief, compelling, audience-focused communication is what you need. Yeah. So let's dive more into your approach, Mobine. And you talk about the strategic voice. And when you're working with leaders, this is a goal of the work that you're doing with them. So he's hoping you could help us to understand, you know, how do you help to begin someone to transform their communication from being merely informative and kind of just pushing content to being more influential?

Mobeen Tahir: 22:17

One framework that works very well in most situations, particularly when you are making a pitch. And a pitch could be selling a product or service, but it could also be just selling an idea. Ultimately, whenever we are making a presentation, we might be selling an idea, trying to change someone's mind about something.

Dr. Leah OH: 22:39

Yeah.

Mobeen Tahir: 22:39

Even if we are convincing a colleague about whether we should pursue a particular project or not. As a leader, we might be trying to get our teams motivated about rallying behind a particular endeavor, a business project, and so forth. So it is still pitching an idea. So a good framework that that works very well in most situations is the why what how framework. And the why what how framework that I teach to my clients is well, always start with why. And I really like uh Simon Sinek's framework. Start with why he wrote a book on this as well. So start with why because why is is explaining the reason why you should be interested in this topic, why this matters. Why am I here to talk to you about this today? Why are we having this conversation? So, why is the most important framework setting question? Then it's the what. What is going into the details? And of course, there is some degree of detail that has to be discussed and outlined in the conversation. This is your opportunity. Once the why has been established, this is the opportunity to go into the what and say, well, these are the details that we should be working on. And then the how comes in, which again goes back to well, how can the audience benefit or how can we move forward? And how can we do something valuable from whatever is being pitched? So how is essentially the forward-looking bit. So how can how can you benefit? If you're making a pitch to to in front of an audience, ultimately you want to show them how they can benefit from your message. And if you're a leader pitching an idea to your business, you have to convince them how can the business, including them as individuals and collectively as a business, well, how can we all benefit from this idea? So why, what, how? And that that's a good framework to communicate even the most complex of ideas, but of course, adapt it to whatever the situation is. But that's a good starting point, particularly if you have too many thoughts. I've got these 50 things to say. Well, how do I organize it in a compelling message? Normally, that framework is a good starting point.

Dr. Leah OH: 25:07

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and what it strikes me with this suggestion, and so many that I hear in here is the simplest suggestions are the most powerful because they're the ones that we're going to remember. They're the ones that this why, what, how, whether you're getting ready for an industry keynote, or like you said, you're going into a meeting with your team, taking, you know, even if it's two minutes all the way up to several hours to kind of do a quick touch base means that you're going to be shaping that information in a way that is audience centered.

Mobeen Tahir: 25:43

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Dr. Leah OH: 25:44

Really helpful. So talking about complexity, and especially in finance, I imagine you work with a lot of folks who have very dense, data-heavy reports and complicated information. And so I'm wondering then, you know, what do we do if we have this type of content? How do we convert it then into this clear, engaging message that's going to connect with the non-technical audience? So maybe it's a board of directors, maybe it's stakeholders outside of the organization. But how do we do that? So we're not losing kind of core insights, but we're we're speaking the same language with the audience.

Mobeen Tahir: 26:26

I've been in situations where I've seen slides having 10 charts on a single slide. Of course, each chart warranting not just its own slide, but its own discussion, because there's there's so much work that has gone into producing this, and there's so much substance in each chart. So clearly, the person who has produced this has done a lot of work and they're super intelligent in in preparing this. But what you end up doing is you create pitfalls for yourself if you if you dump all that data into a single slide. So the key is to again boil it down to well, what is the talking point that you must that you want the audience to remember?

Dr. Leah OH: 27:12

Yeah.

Mobeen Tahir: 27:13

And if you ask ourselves the question that question, it's it's easy to then realize that, well, the conclusion that I want to draw from from these 10 charts is is this one single sentence. Well, okay, if that is the single sentence, what supporting data, what supporting charts do you need to make that point? So the the the presentation must always start with the talking point. Even if you've had a number crunching exercise, ultimately that data is telling you something, right? What is the message that you want to convey? Think about articulating that message and then show whatever supporting data is required to reinforce that message rather than saying I've crunched all this data, because sometimes we fall into this trap, and I've seen it in the finance industry. People want to showcase all their work because that might they think that that might give them credibility that I've done all this work. Whereas the power is in the insight. If you have a powerful insight that could only have been drawn from doing all that work, then people will see it. And that will come through and that will make an impression. But it's a good exercise for us to even think about well, what is the main message and start with that message. Often I I say that if you're designing a slide, your your title of your slide should should should convey the message that that is that is your key message from the slide. Start there. So practically you're starting from a blank canvas. You're not you're not saying, okay, I've got I've got these 10 spreadsheets and five uh programming models. I need to find a way to bring all of that into a PowerPoint presentation. No. You need to say, what is my message? Okay, starting from a blank slate, this is this is a message on a single slide. And then what data supports it? Maybe that's just one data point, and that might be enough. Because the more data you share, the more chance there is that people will forget.

Dr. Leah OH: 29:25

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think too, when we have these, I fully understand the allure of wanting to showcase all that work, like you're saying, because we feel like that will get us the credit. But you're right, also when we're showcasing all of this work, I think so many times audience members get lost, whether it's, you know, in a meeting in your organization or a larger, they're not listening to the speaker. They're trying to decipher all of the data, all of the charts that are put in front of them. So I think. Right, that's another way that you can inadvertently lose that key insight, making that connection with the audience because they're just trying to make sense of all of this information in front of them. Yeah. Yeah, that's really, really helpful in thinking about that. And I'm wondering, so you kind of raise that point of maybe the fear of not getting credit if we don't show all of this work. And that's probably how they have seen others model it before. And that makes me think about potential resistance. So I know from work I do, it can be really challenging for someone to shift their communication style, particularly leaders, because right, they've they've risen to a certain station communicating in one particular way. And it can be really hard for them to want to adapt other ways. But I'm wondering, what are, you know, what are some approaches that you found that have been helpful so that leaders can motivate their teams to embrace these more effective audience-centered communication strategies rather than that kind of traditional jargon-heavy approach.

Mobeen Tahir: 31:12

So, Leah, one of my hobbies uh when I'm not doing uh finance or public speaking, I also do music. And my music teacher he tells me whenever we're practicing a new song, a challenging song to learn and develop my vocals, he tells me, first sing it exactly the way the original singer has performed the song. Because in doing so, you develop the skills of that person. So the the original singer has has shaped their voice in a certain way. If you copy them exactly, you try to develop the same skills. Once you do that, then you can try to discover your own style and do it in your own way and and and and be free in exploring different things. I recently did a workshop with a team, and I gave them this example as a way. Uh we were doing a workshop on using our voice, and I have a voice framework where it's about varying the volume and and varying the notes that you hit with your volume and and emphasizing certain words and pausing and and varying the pace, all of those things. And the the whole goal of the exercise was that let's try different things. Let's just try because we we are creatures of habit. We we we become set in our ways, and we don't realize that we've got a voice which can be used in different ways. It's an instrument, it can be used in ways that we might not have used before, but it's still our voice. And that's how I framed it that look, you you you can try doing it in a different way, and in doing so, you develop a new skill, but it's still your instrument, it's still your voice. And when we did that exercise, people came back and said to me that wow, I I I didn't realize I could I could sound like this. And and I said to them that I've never heard you speak so well, because you were hitting notes that I've not heard you hit before. You were pausing in a way that I've not heard you pause before, and just the impact of their communication changed so radically by making such subtle shifts. So, what I would say to anyone who feels resistance is it's it's a matter of habit, but it's not a huge thing. We think that becoming a confident communicator is going to be a huge undertaking. Well, no, of course it's a lifelong journey, but uh small changes can make a huge difference. Just pausing can completely transform the impact of your delivery. And you add one uh ingredient to to your repertoire, you see the impact, you improve, you you learn, you grow, you do another, and that gives you motivation. Small changes, yeah, feedback constant growth. So I would say that look, it's it's it's not rocket science, it's not that difficult. Small changes can be made as long as you are willing to try and have some fun and and you are willing to grow and learn as you go along.

Dr. Leah OH: 34:35

Yes, I could not agree more with you. Because that's one thing I really love about this area is you know, you don't, it's not expensive tech that you need to buy. It's not starting from scratch or years of heavy work that you put in before you see anything in terms of outcomes. He said it's start small. Pick one one thing to focus on, to practice, maybe to struggle with for a minute. And like you said, when it becomes part of your repertoire, then we recognize okay, what else? Where else can I improve? Yeah, really, really insightful. So, Mobine, one thing when I was preparing for a conversation, I think particularly in finance, you know, there are so many things happening in global economies, whether and in domestic economies. When we're thinking about communicating within finance and with financial news, how do you coach leaders to connect with others in a way that fosters transparency and trust so that people feel comfortable interpreting this messaging and they're understanding kind of the why behind different decisions and different outcomes?

Mobeen Tahir: 35:58

So many different facets of leadership we can uh we can talk about here. I think one I I just mentioned here is people rally behind leaders who they know care about them. And when leaders show that they care about their people, people will stand behind their leaders. And when they make the point about why they are doing something, they will they will believe their leaders when when they make that point. And there are ways to show that you care, right? Uh as an example, I I was recently looking for a social media manager for my own business. And I I put out an advert and I got lots of proposals, right? 20 plus proposals, and I'm I'm overwhelmed at this point, lots of good profiles.

Dr. Leah OH: 36:59

Yeah.

Mobeen Tahir: 36:59

And there's only one proposal that stands out, and it stands out for the simple reason that the person who has made the proposal has not just said what they can offer me, but they've asked questions to me. Well, because yes, I put out an initial advert with certain requirements, but they went a bit further. They said, Well, what would you need for this? Well, what are you thinking about this? What's what's your vision? So they wanted to understand more about my needs before making a proposal of their services. And this stood out because they were looking to understand the the more it showed that they cared about me and that they they they were looking to know more about me rather than just offer a generic service. And and that that feeling stuck with me to the point that I I eventually went for that person.

Dr. Leah OH: 38:01

Yeah.

Mobeen Tahir: 38:02

And the same thing can apply with with leaders, right? If if the if if people feel that their leaders care about them, then they will rally behind the their leaders. So if they want to explain why they've made a certain decision, that why will land much better if they've earned the trust of their people first. And the way to earn their trust is to show that they care in the first place.

Dr. Leah OH: 38:33

Mm-hmm. Yeah. The power of relationships, right? And how it becomes really cyclical and pays back in dividends. It's like a financial pun there. Sorry. It's like it's still pretty early on a Monday morning for me here. I love a pun. Thank you. So I have two final questions for you, Mobine. And this is how we end all of our episodes of the communicative leader. And these two questions kind of work in tandem. And and so I my question to you is you know, what is the pragmatic leadership or communication tip? It can be advice, it can be a challenge, a suggestion. So the first part is what do you want to offer or challenge our title leaders, you know, our managers, directors with? And then the second part of the question is what is that advice for employees of all ranks in terms of that advice tip or challenge related to leadership or communication?

Mobeen Tahir: 39:36

Sure. So to leaders, I would say of course, care care about your people, build that trust first and empower your people. I think for for leaders, the best leaders that I've worked with are those who trust their people to do great things.

Dr. Leah OH: 39:58

Yeah.

Mobeen Tahir: 39:59

And when you show that trust, I've I've felt myself as an employee of an organization, when a leader has micromanaged me, how I've reacted to that, versus when a leader has trusted me to thrive and do great things, how I've brought creativity and new ideas. Like if I'm told to do something, then that's the job you you do it. Whereas if I am trusted to do a great job, then I will be creative and I will find ways of doing that job much better. And and and when you empower your people, now uh of course roles vary, and in not every role requires requires the same level of creativity. Not every role will require constantly having to identify new ways of doing things, but almost every situation requires you to empower your people to do good work. If you're a leader, you have people working for you, if you empower them to do their best, then they will respond to that trust. And of course, how you communicate that will make all the difference. How you communicate that you believe in them and you are empowering them to deliver their best, that will create the trust and that will encourage them to be their best version at work. For employees, of course, since we are talking about communication, I'll I'll say I'll go back to that point. Small changes can make such a big difference. Small changes. We it is easy to look at a leader standing on stage and admire them and think that this comes naturally to them. It does not. It does not. I've I I was recently in a situation. Now I I've I'm a uh I I do public speaking for my company and I coach others, but I I was in a situation where I was about to take stage in an environment where I had done that presentation many times before. So this was a familiar setting, familiar environment. I know my presentation well. I'm I'm excited. There's almost a sense of excitement. But uh as I was waiting to go on stage, my uh Apple Watch gave me a notification saying that your heart rate has hit 120 BPM.

Dr. Leah OH: 42:30

Yeah.

Mobeen Tahir: 42:31

And at that moment I realized that wow, okay, I I you can be excited about going on stage, and people might think you're you're someone that speaking comes naturally to, but we are all human and we all feel those symptoms. We feel you know, our palms uh sweat and our heart races and our mouths become dry when when we take the stage. It's fine to have those feelings. You can still feel the feel like you are human and still communicate very well as long as you develop the tools, and those tools are easy to develop. How are you gonna use your voice better? How can you use your body language better? When you take the stage, what's what are the ways to have the right presence in the right situation? It's just those small shifts that can make a big difference and get you to a point where you think that, hey, that leader on stage, they are really cool. I would love to be like them. Yeah and how do I ever get there? Well, you can get there. Small changes will get you there.

Dr. Leah OH: 43:42

Yeah, there's so many. I really I want to raise up a couple things that you said. I think the sentiment, I I wrote it down, trust your employees to do great things is such a beautiful sentiment because so many people say, trust your employees, period, hard stop. And to me, what that says is trust them to get to work on time, trust them to kind of do what they're tasked with. You're essentially just trusting them in this kind of traditional transactional sense of the word. But I love yours and saying trust them to do great things because, like you said, that empowerment is built in and recognizing that they have the space to play, to be creative, to innovate in ways that's not just, oh great, you got yourself here by nine. Like, good, good, good on you. So that that is amazing, Mobine. And I I hope that is something that others will start to, they'll extend their sentence to include doing great things. And I wanted to also echo, I think you're right, there's so many folks who think, well, some people are just natural leaders, they're these natural communicators. Of course, it's easy for them to get up there. And maybe for a tiny, tiny, small percentage, but I'd say for the vast majority, I mean, there are so many incredible political leaders and popular figures. And they're like, I am very shy, I'm very introverted, this goes against my nature. And they're doing it because there's a lot of practice and muscle memory, recognizing that this boils down to communication. And when we look at it piece by piece, we can kind of put that puzzle together in a way that fits for us. Doesn't happen overnight, but it is possible.

Mobeen Tahir: 45:32

It's a journey, and uh the sooner you start the journey and start enjoying the journey, the better. And uh, it's definitely a fulfilling and rewarding journey if if you get on it.

Dr. Leah OH: 45:43

Yes. Well, Mobine, thank you for sharing your time with us, your expertise, all of these really thoughtful, pragmatic takeaways. These are elements that I know I'm gonna return to, and I know that will be really helpful for our listeners.

Mobeen Tahir: 45:58

Thank you so much for having me. It was it was a great conversation and uh a great opportunity to talk communication with you, Dr. Leah.

Dr. Leah OH: 46:06

All right, my friends, that wraps up our conversation today. Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose. I'm looking forward to chatting with you again soon. I'm the communicative leader.